Even from people that never lived in a communist state
edit: im 17 and i hate communism
Dunno about communist unless you count the tankies which I don’t see on the main instances.
Lots of socialist stuff though.
Socialism — the dictatorship of the working-class — is the transitional mode of production between capitalism — the dictatorship of the capitalist class — and the stateless, classless mode of production that is communism. You can’t really separate the two.
Thats the communist definition of socialism. Socialism originally just referred to the leftist movement as a whole (including anarchists and dem-socs, which i guess he refers to). And is also used to refer to the concept of workers owning the means of production
The first line in Wikipedia “Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems[1] characterised by social ownership of the means of production”.
To be clear, this definition goes back to 1832, where the original inventor of the word used to define a society “based on the shared ownership of resources”. So it is not just “the communist definition” it really is the definition, it did not “originally” refer to anything else.
Leaves platform enshittified by capitalism
Complains about people being communists
Bruh
You’re hilarious. Is this a bit? This has to be a bit.
Capitalism isn’t about competition or the free market or any of that. It’s about the idea that there is an ownership class that is entitled to control the flow of wealth because they had some meetings, moved some money around, and now own some buildings they didn’t build full of machines they didn’t make or move, that produce things they didn’t design, test, inspect, or assemble. But they get to decide who gets the benefit of that economic activity (it’s them, while those who actually make all that happen get peanuts).
A communist economy can reduce redundancies to increase efficiency, but that doesn’t mean it can only offer one option for any good or service. Art, variety, and uniqueness can still exist in communist economies, they just wouldn’t be gated by ability to afford things but instead by ability to produce things. Star Trek is a communist economy because the replicators can make whatever anyone wants. We don’t have the technology for that level of communism and, IMO communism doesn’t work very well unless you’re in a post-scarcity world, until then I believe it’s good to incentivise and reward workers. But even with scarcity, a communist system could make you choose between having a really nice computer vs a really nice bike, and offer less nice options to those that choose the nice other thing.
You realize that capitalism is different from the free market and commerce, right? … Right?
The internet is a government project. Without “Communism” you wouldn’t even have a single website, imagine that.
We already don’t, our choices are dictated to us by the executive boards that act as America’s unelected central planning committees.
I know getting upset means I’m losing, but you’re really good.
What?? 😭 😭 😭
When you leave reddit, a corporatised and astroturfed bot farm you’re gonna get less liberal and right wing stuff that only existed to make money or exert political influence.
If you’re really upset by it you can filter lemmy.ml which is gonna be the main source of left wing posting.
Also lemmy.dbzer0.com since its admin rightfully hates liberals. And lemmy.world admins have already blocked !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com lol
I’d rather OP just goes back to reddit though honestly. There are already a surprising amount of capitalist bootlickers on Lemmy for an open source platform
You can also block certain users who won’t stop harping on one subject
If you’re really upset by it you can filter lemmy.ml which is gonna be the main source of left wing posting.
That’s true for you, anyway, because your instance is defederated from lemmygrad and hexbear.
Tbf reddit used to be a lot more lefty. Back when Shit Reddit Says was the dominant subculture it was a lot of fun… But then Steve Bannon wanted Trump to be president and SRS lost the war against red hats and bots.
I’ve lived all my life under capitalism and I hate it.
I’ve read Marx, (for real, grab the book and read it!) and I see the dude does have a point.
I recommend actually reading Marx and Lenin, and not fictitious allegories about strawmen
Allegories can help explain theories, but they are never sufficient to understand it. Animal Farm is an allegory of a strawman, it barely touches reality. And it’s no wonder you are that embedded in propaganda, it’s normal.
You mean Orwell’s classic anti-capitalist novel wherein a worker’s rebellion against tyrannical bosses is betrayed by capitalist pigs who re-create the farm’s original conditions for their own profit?
You should read his “Homage to Catalonia”, Orwell fought against capitalists in Spain’s civil war and wrote a book about his experiences there.
oh you are 17. When I was 17 I also was just like you.
When I was 17? Hell yeah, with the information I had back then.
I was super conservative lol.
I did and it is stupid propaganda.
I’ve read it.
Orwell was socialist my dude.
Ever read one of his other books Down and Out in Paris and London?
It helps explain why he is a socialist.
I recommend you learn from real books about real life like those of Marx and Lenin, not fiction.
The language can be a bit tough to understand these days though so might want to read Ted Reese’s Socialism Or Extinction instead
I’d recommend Chris Harman’s How Marxism Works for an intro, or Engels’ Principles of Communism. The Manifesto is more of a call to action for Workers than an overview of Communism, though it’s still an important work nonetheless.
How someone can downvote two subjective statements of opinion (hates capitalism, sees a point in a book) is beyond me. There’s nothing to downvote here. It’s an opinion, not a statement of fact that is incorrect.
People misuse downvotes.
That’s an easy question to answer. People often downvote comments that waste their time. Opinions that have no basis, or that are based on bad definitions or falsehoods, those tend to get downvoted. Because there’s nothing to learn and nothing to discuss.
My approach is to only downvote factual inaccuracies or extremely terrible takes. I know that’s not for everyone, but I wish it was.
I thought the same many years ago, until I saw how it went for every single country that implemented communism and then I didnt like it so much. You all seriously think is a coincidence?
You gotta look the context and learn about geopolitics. If Communism is so bad why the USA need to keep interfering with Cuba?
Lets compare Cuba with other Caribbean islands, how they perform against those? Remember they are blocked by the strongest country in the world.
Cuba developed its own covid vaccine, cuba sends doctors to africa in order to help people there, when Italia was in a health crisis Cuba sent thousands of doctors.
Cuba has the most advanced and inclusive family laws in the world.
Edit: btw Awesome album and Lemmy was an Anarchist.
First than anything, great taste in music my dude. Ok, fair point, these countries have it hard because of economic sanctions, but that doesn’t explain why they all devolve into a tyrannical, corrupt and repressive systems where people are forced to stay and a great majority seems to want to leave. People just don’t have free will and freedom of speech in these places. Is not a coincidence, its by design, communism is intentionally “the dictatorship of the working class”.
And don’t get me wrong, I dislike very much the unregulated capitalistic system of the USA too, yet a lot of people in the world seem to want to live there instead of any communist country. If I those were my only options, I would hate it, but I would choose the same.
Not really surprising, it’s complicated to make progress when every world power has it out for you.
I don’t blame the chef when I can’t understand the recipe. I learn what the ingredients are.
Probably has something to do with leaving a platform because it turned into a capitalist shithole?
If you want capitalist propaganda you can go back to reddit lol
My guess is that it’s because the average age of lemmy is somewhere around 15-17. It’s the only thing that makes sense. People are into that shit in their mid-late teens. Then they grow out of it.
It happens in every generation.
When I was 15 me and my friends made fun of communists and joked they were probably posting from their parent’s computers. Now that I’m middle aged I’m a socialist, although wouldn’t quite say communist. I haven’t read Marx, but I do believe the point of a government is to help people, and our governments aren’t doing enough in that regard. I believe privately held corporations are designed to make their owners money, and if that interferes with the common good then they should be stopped.
The problem is that people think that shit would work here. It won’t. It’s barely worked elsewhere. And if you don’t believe this, look up how happy the people of Bulgaria are.
Capitalism sucks. But it’s at least predictable and somewhat malleable. Socialism/communism is at best a unproven theoretical ideology.
There are definitely failed communist states. Everyone always talks about bad examples and not successes like say, Nordic countries. And I realize I’m not saying something new here, but if we can agree those countries are doing well, but argue they’re not socialist, then why don’t we go ahead and implement the programs they have?
I don’t particularly care what the label is, I care about the outcome. I want people to get treated for illness without going bankrupt. I want everyone to have access to education. Every person should have somewhere to sleep. Every person should have enough to eat.
If this was the middle ages we could argue that it’s the law of the jungle, and the strong survive while the weak fall to the side. Today we have abundance to the point that we absolutely have enough for everyone. It’s the system that distributes goods and assigns tasks which isn’t up to the job.
Call it what you want, but I believe we should improve our system to address those problems, and I believe it’s possible to address them.
Right, but Nordic countries aren’t exactly communist or socialist. There’s this if you’d like to understand it better.
I’m fairly familiar with the Nordic countries and I think it’s important to have a market. Still, they’re known for “socialist” policies like universal healthcare, strong welfare benefits and Norway’s sovereign wealth fund. They also manage to have strong democracies (including proportional representation) without turning into dictatorships like people accuse communist/socialist countries of doing.
What I was getting at is would you agree the countries are doing well? If so, who cares about the label, why don’t we do some of that stuff?
What you just described is what America already has.
That’s not true. America doesn’t have universal healthcare, or free higher education. Norway’s sovereign wealth fund owns 1.5% of the world’s listed countries, for the benefit of Norwegians.
Those aren’t Socialism though, lol
You don’t think universal healthcare is socialist? Free higher education?
Again, I don’t care as much about the label, but when these things are suggested in America it’s socialist. When you point out anything good about the Nordics or just Europe generally the answer is they’re not socialist, and it’s not because of socialism. But we can’t do those things in America because it’s socialist.
Well as I said I’d call myself a socialist more than communist, and for many that’s splitting hairs, but I think it’s reasonable to call them socialist. But my whole point was if we skip the labeling, they have elements in their governments that I’d like to see emulated. It’s possible to have a democratically controlled nation that works more for the benefit of its people.
This remains a myth unsubstantiated by any data or evidence.
I hope you replied this same thing to every comment posted answering OP’s question. Because that’s all anyone has to offer.
Sorry, I should’ve been clearer, the myth you spouted isn’t just baseless, it’s actually been disproved. Different generations change their political leaning in different ways as they age.
Which is exactly what I said, genius.
Almost 50 here, and I’m pretty thoroughly socialist… and my dad is leaning farther left the older he gets too.
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I’m 52 and communism is a load of bullshit. Always has been.
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I don’t have kids, not very good with them as you can see ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I was like OP though when I was 17 too, so coming back a bit older might work after reading through all the great resources provided in these comments
And as people have mentioned here, it can take until you’re in your 40s for some to finally escape all the anticommunist propaganda they’ve been fed their whole lives in capitalist states.
Communism is for kids and people who refuse to know better. Period.
Lol some of us grew up in socialist households and still recognize the dangers and failures of communism every time it’s been tried.
It is a communist platform, you will find communists
why not? if you’d like a more capitalist experience you can always go to reddit. don’t forget to download their shitty app that no longer has competitors.
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As Marx predicted a hundred years ago
Lol you just provided the simplest counter to the most common capitalist argument.
“You don’t understand capitalism, bro. The problem isn’t capitalism, it’s the regulation on capitalism. Under a true capitalist system, there can’t be monopolies because capitalism rewards competition.”
Ok so what happened to all the reddit apps
Edit: I really like the reddit app example because it’s simple: no regulation or anti-capitalist force made them to that, it was literally just a capitalist decision.
But regulatory capture is an important part of capitalism, and no matter how many ancap bullshit artists say otherwise, government is absolutely part of the capitalist plan. Giving the workers a “say” (or the illusion of one) keeps them a bit quieter, but more importantly, having a government outsources a lot of crap they would otherwise have to pay for, like infrastructure, which would be a huge strain on profits.
In fact, the ancap bullshit idea that unregulated markets would improve things is an artificial limitation on capitalist power. Total lack of regulation is a restriction on capitalism.
They don’t want reddit but want its liberal echo chamber lmao
Especially people who never lived in a communist state
Part of the problem is capitalist regimes keep sending assassins to murder leaders of communist movements, such as FBI killing the Black Panther leaders.
Law enforcement in the US is harassing mutual aid organizations. Maybe they’re afraid we’ll repair the park fences and deny some business a choice government contract?
While you’re not wrong, it’s important to retain a global perspective. There are “communist” leaders that were total pieces of shit and while they did have help, that help wasn’t always capitalist. Stalin is an example here.
And then there’s pieces of shit who were supported by external forces, but not by capitalist regimes seeking to undermine them. I’m not 100% confident in this history, and there’s no way I’m going to spell his name right, but, the Romanian piece if shit, Caucescu (???) came to power riding a wave of support from the Nazis. Hitler didn’t do it to destabilize Romania, but because he was like, “there’s some good old fashioned fascist genociders down there, let’s give them more guns.” And those fascist genociders were technically communists.
What I’m getting at is that the enemies of a worker-ruled communist state are many, and many of those enemies are within their own systems. Communism, like every other system, suffers from the fact that there are humans involved. Just because a communism exists doesn’t mean it’s going to be utopia.
But that also doesn’t mean that communism can’t be good, or at least better.
As a note, fascism is a tool of industrialist plutocrats to extend the life of their power as worker class quality of life deteriorates. While Hoover was in power during the Great Depression, US industrialists were looking to Hitler and Mussolini while laborers were looking to the Soviet Union.
As per the Christian nationalist movement / transnational white power movement in the US, our dependence on capitalism has driven us to the verge of civil war, and a push by the Republican party to single-party autocracy and purges of undesirable demographics, including the impoverished and homeless.
I can’t speak to Nicolae and Elena Ceaușescu except to say autocracy always tends to go badly, with power consolidated until abuse and corruption is inevitable.
The whole idea behind communism is to imagine what a functional public serving state would look like, and then how to get there from here. Marx speculates on steps that might work to get to a starting point, but much like the framers of the Constitution of the United States, he didn’t know everything and couldn’t predict how it all plays out in given circumstances.
(US constitutional framers never did democracy before. They favored landowners. They assumed common homesteaders would be driven to understand and vote for their own best interests. And they got broadsided by the industrial revolution. Also, FPTP elections and two-party systems suck.)
We know civil wars tend to lead to serial dictatorships and foreign influencers looking to exploit economic vulnerability. We also grassroots mutual aid movements take generations and are prone to disruption by time and circumstances, particularly raiders and police forces. So we’re still trying to chart the geography between here and utopia.
Especially people who never lived in a communist state
That’s a rather impossible requirement, considering that all “communist states” to date have been oligarchic autocracies that were just as much about communism as they were democratic.
Real communism is market ownership by the people, and not some elite cabal of politicians or capitalists. And a top-down planned economy is pretty much anti-communism, as it violates the very fundamentals of communism as being worker-driven.
considering that all “communist states” to date have been oligarchic autocracies
And you think that is a coincidence?
Considering how America is moving towards that same state, with it’s Republicans?
No, I don’t think it’s a coincidence. Oligarchic autocracies can occur under any circumstances where a power-hungry elite manage to wrest control by using the masses as “useful idiots”. The Conservative leadership, in general, have learned this trick very well.
oh im not defending by any means the unregulated system of the USA, my point was against communism, not in favor of something else in particular.
I don’t spend a lot of time promoting communism, but I do talk a lot of shit about capitalism - I’ve lived in it. Of course when I criticise capitalism people accuse me of promoting communism and having never lived in it.
I think you should read Marx. State planning is definitely in line with Communism, the state is of the Workers and not a separate entity in Socialism and Communism.
Sure I’ll just go in my alt-history time travel machine and be born in a communist state. Sorry for suggesting we improve things somewhat?
You should go into your alt history time machine and realize how shitty it is living under communism. Why do you think every country bordering Russia hates them so much?
Yeah, same. It’s sad that people who don’t really know what it was like are romanticizing communism as the “solution to everything” and repeating what is essentially populist nonsense.
Must really suck to have guaranteed housing and income lol
If you think that’s how it worked, then I have news for you.
You mean the capitalist ex-Soviet states? Lmao.
“I’m 14 and very edgy.”
Sounds like you probably are
Ah yes wanting a better system not built on the capitalist exploitation of the working-class is “edgy”
Do you even know what you’re talking about?
Found them!
If you intend to get informed or do any sort of political discussion on lemmy I’m afraid that’s not possible. They’re as radicalized as can be
I just resorted to blocking every political sub, including the ones masquerading as non political. Like every news sub
Frankly I just blocked sub by sub and user by user because otherwise you might lose out on non political content.
Basically every time you see a sub that’s full of political content you block the sub and if you see a political post of a sub that is mostly ok you just block the OP
Afaik there are specific instances where most of these users gather but I didn’t go that route because I wanted to avoid blocking legitimate stuff as much as possible
Would you mind telling me what communism is? Like, you don’t have to quote Marx, or go into deep detail; I’m just curious about what you think it is.
I’m a capitalist (but not a laissez-faire capitalist), so I’m not trying to trap you with pedantry.