Question I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on possibly making votes public. This has been discussed in a lot of other issues, but here's a dedicated one for discussion. Positives Could help figh...
Probably better to post in the github issue rather than replying here.
It’s not theoretical to se how people consistently behave when there’s less friction for toxic behavior. You should look into it if you’re not already aware of the very predictable negative outcomes that stem from removing those frictions.
That’s because it’s supposed to be. I was on Reddit for a decade until their management shit the bed, and these kinds of problems weren’t a thing there despite the much larger userbase.
For the record, to me it’s less about privacy and more about setting expectations. I’m not anonymous online, I’m pseudonymous, I’ve had this handle for a long time. I am my online identity, and when I post and vote I don’t feel anonymous, even if I’m relatively protected from someone knocking on my door or messaging my boss about a statement.
If voting “ledgers” aren’t presented in the discussion, that’s because they aren’t intended to be part of the discussion. This reduces the value of influential individuals votes (ooh Bill Gates liked X, Kamala Harris disliked Y etc.) and shifts focus to how the community values of the content. It’s the same reason that we follow communities rather than individuals. We get an internet “hive mind” of sorts without cult of personality.
Expectations of what is part of the discussion, not expectations of privacy.
As for doxxing, that’s a problem with all social media - but possibly worse on the “regular” ones (people having mobs attacking their houses, being arrested in countries with censorship laws etc.)
I agree that it would be better if people used votes as a marker of quality, but strongly disagree on moderation action based on voting.
Personally, there’s three scenarios when I use downvotes w/o commenting:
Someone has already voiced the reason
I don’t have time/energy to comment
The target is a censored echo-chamber that will ban anyone who disagrees (can’t vote/show disapproval if you’re banned) - example would be .ml communities having moments about how stalinist USSR did nothing wrong.
Anyway, once a post from a community rises sufficiently to pop up on all, it becomes a part of the larger discussion, and voting will shift towards the opinions of the larger fediverse. This is also usually when communities get discovered by more people. If a community doesn’t want the engagement of the wider user-base, a closed blog may be more suitable as a forum, or alternatively have an instance w/o downvoting.
When browsing all or new I do so both to break out of my bubble and to vote on content (usually stuff I find interesting).
i am from the post usenet and pre facebook internet generation (i hope that is vague enough) so using my real name on the internet or signing up for accounts with my real name email acount is strictly verboten by indoctrination, so my opinion may be out of date or invalid somehow, but i can not see how your lemmy account’s up or down voting history violates privacy in any meaningful way
Ok, yeah, theoretically.
But we’re talking about putting voting info into the UI for anyone to see. Not highly motivated and skilled bad actors.
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It’s not theoretical to se how people consistently behave when there’s less friction for toxic behavior. You should look into it if you’re not already aware of the very predictable negative outcomes that stem from removing those frictions.
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Except that it plainly obvious that it’s a reduction in friction for doing so and therefore will increase the behavior.
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We’ve already seen that kind of harrasment on major platforms including X and those owned by Meta.
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That’s because it’s supposed to be. I was on Reddit for a decade until their management shit the bed, and these kinds of problems weren’t a thing there despite the much larger userbase.
For the record, to me it’s less about privacy and more about setting expectations. I’m not anonymous online, I’m pseudonymous, I’ve had this handle for a long time. I am my online identity, and when I post and vote I don’t feel anonymous, even if I’m relatively protected from someone knocking on my door or messaging my boss about a statement.
If voting “ledgers” aren’t presented in the discussion, that’s because they aren’t intended to be part of the discussion. This reduces the value of influential individuals votes (ooh Bill Gates liked X, Kamala Harris disliked Y etc.) and shifts focus to how the community values of the content. It’s the same reason that we follow communities rather than individuals. We get an internet “hive mind” of sorts without cult of personality.
Removed by mod
Expectations of what is part of the discussion, not expectations of privacy.
As for doxxing, that’s a problem with all social media - but possibly worse on the “regular” ones (people having mobs attacking their houses, being arrested in countries with censorship laws etc.)
Removed by mod
I agree that it would be better if people used votes as a marker of quality, but strongly disagree on moderation action based on voting.
Personally, there’s three scenarios when I use downvotes w/o commenting:
Someone has already voiced the reason
I don’t have time/energy to comment
The target is a censored echo-chamber that will ban anyone who disagrees (can’t vote/show disapproval if you’re banned) - example would be .ml communities having moments about how stalinist USSR did nothing wrong.
Anyway, once a post from a community rises sufficiently to pop up on all, it becomes a part of the larger discussion, and voting will shift towards the opinions of the larger fediverse. This is also usually when communities get discovered by more people. If a community doesn’t want the engagement of the wider user-base, a closed blog may be more suitable as a forum, or alternatively have an instance w/o downvoting.
When browsing all or new I do so both to break out of my bubble and to vote on content (usually stuff I find interesting).
i am from the post usenet and pre facebook internet generation (i hope that is vague enough) so using my real name on the internet or signing up for accounts with my real name email acount is strictly verboten by indoctrination, so my opinion may be out of date or invalid somehow, but i can not see how your lemmy account’s up or down voting history violates privacy in any meaningful way
It’s in the mbin ui already
So the technical-skill-bar is transforming a lemmy link into the equivalent on an mbin instance? That is huge.