Looks like my account was banned/restricted for the above interaction, have already sent the mods on world an email asking if they’d be willing to reverse that. Had an episode of psychosis a few months ago where I did say some offensive stuff, (understandably) got a 3 month ban on .lol for that, so could see my account having been flagged.
I uh, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect people to check others profiles to ensure we are correctly pronouning them… when making a throw away comment that is less than 10 words involving a ludicrously common saying. Jerboa does not show users pronouns. I could switch to an app that DOES show the pronouns, do any Lemmings have a recommendation for a free Lemmy mobile app that has that feature?
Edit: Edie chimed in, Jerboa does show pronouns. It’s a formatting issue with mobile vs browser (She has them on individual text lines so they don’t appear on mobile).
Was just going to respond to the user in question to let them know I wasn’t purposefully trying to offend that individual, to discover I’m not able to post or make comments on world now, so figured I’d see what y’alls opinion on the matter is.
I think you shouldn’t assume everyone on the internet to be a man. It is misogynistic. I don’t think there would be anything wrong with e.g. referring gender neutrally to someone who turns out to be a woman because you didn’t check her profile which says she’s a woman, but it is annoying to see people assume everyone on the internet to be male. I’ve especially experienced this in more techy communities which definitely seems like sexist stereotyping to me.
This is deeply shitty. If you’re right that >80% of people on Lemmy are men (I’m not sure I buy that), then it’s even worse to assume everyone is a man. What you’re doing is chasing off the already extremely outnumbered non-men. If you want this place to be welcoming to people who aren’t men, then you need to change your behavior.
Ok, then try your comment again. What is it that you’re saying here?
If that comment would chase you away, then I think it would be good for you to be chased away
does more to chase people away than what I said
If it means you leave and take your horrible take with you, I’m all for it.
Now I see why a lot of people block hexbear.
Weird, all those instances are perfectly content to allow fascists on their instances. I wonder if these two things are related? No, no, better just keep posting like a redditor and never bother with introspection.
which is why a good majority of instances have entirely defederated from hexbear.
Being a selfish liberal with bad takes that can’t handle pushback from the left is common, yes.
Is it me who’s in the terrible instance
Lots of terrible things are very popular. Are you going to tell me that McDonald’s is the pinnacle of fine dining, too?
It’s sexist because you assume male to be the default, just like the assumption that white is the default skin color is racist. The behavior outlined by the user above you follows from this thinking. Driving non-men away is a result of this behavior, which is the result of the sexist attitude that it’s okay to assume everyone online (or on Lemmy) is a man.
The only people driven away by eir comment are misogynists.
If somebody corrects you about gender, just say woops, correct yourself, and move on. It’s an honest mistake, a simple fix, and nobody should be offended. Especially online. If they are still offended, it’s because they want to be.
The user’s pronouns were in her username, OP’s client just doesn’t display additional lines.
Especially since in this case it was not even the person that was misgendered that called it out. Maybe the original person doesn’t even care.
I’m probably a bit further to the right than most on the fediverse with this opinion but…
I think, once you have been informed of someone’s pronouns, it’s flat out rude to not use them. I don’t know if it’s a banning issue but that’s for the moderators on your instance to decide or the instance the community is on. Even if you don’t agree with someone’s lifestyle, it’s just polite to address people the way they’d like to be addressed.
But surely there’s a difference between intentional misuse and accidental. I think banning someone for not looking up someone’s pronouns before a public interaction seems like pushing things a bit far here. I certainly am not checking such things. But, then in general when online I will use gender neutral wording because frankly, for online interactions someone’s rarely information that matters for the interaction. I don’t really need to know.
My view is, I think it is almost always clear when someone is being malicious and thus transphobic and when someone makes an honest mistake/did not know better. We, as a whole, really should be differentiating between obviously malicious and non-malicious cases.
Yaa that is similar to my viewpoint, though I am also a cis, white, blonde, blue eyed, tall, male, so my experiences/opinions are coming through the privilege lenses absolutely :| Having to deal with conversations like this all the time with “normies”, can imagine people who are deep into such social circles get tired of dealing with the acting-in-bad faith bullshitters.
I personally try to avoid gendered language, but if I do use it, I tend to check their profile-bio :)
You weren’t misgendering; you were meming. Modifying one part of “the man, the myth, the X” to adapt it to the situation is fine and good, but when you start swapping out too much of it (“the X, the myth, the Y” – or worse, “the X, the Y, the Z”) you lose the reference.
Yeah that’s my thought. It’s an expression. I’ve said things like “c’mon man” to people IRL I know to be women, without complaint. If I was using the word “man” in this kind of way and the person I was saying it to asked me not to, I would of course respect their wishes and stop doing it to them, but I’ve not seen it happen before.
But a third person coming in to whinge when the person I was talking to had no complaint? 🙄
(As a side note, with this specific expression I quite like the alternative of “the ma’am…”. That helps it scan exactly the same as the original phrase.)
And other people deliberately use all of the “come on man” and “Hey mate” and “Dude is not gendered” explicitly at trans people, because it lets them get away with misgendering. So trans people, who experience that stuff every day, can be a little sensitive when someone does that, even if they aren’t doing it deliberately.
In this case, not knowing the person, and not having access to their pronouns, the comment was fine. But once you know it’s an issue, repeating it despite knowing it’s an issue is a shitty thing to do.
What app do you use? Last I checked, pronouns are part of display names for Hexbear users. You shouldn’t have to check profiles. That’s the whole point of them being included in display names. Your app would ideally just respect display names and it would require no extra effort on your part to gender people correctly.
Jerboa, made an edit on the post asking for a free Lemmy mobile recommendation that has the feature.
Use Thunder. Its on Fdroid. Or you can grab it straight from Github with Obtanium.
I’m on jerbora as well and can see the previous person’s pronouns, but it could be an instance specific thing.
I checked on my desktop, they were appearing on there ??
Jerboa is honoring the newlines in my display name (whereas web browsers will just substitute newlines for spaces). I just didn’t think about the fact that it would only display one line.
This is what it should look like:
∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/its, she/her, fae/faer, love/loves, ze/hir, des/pair, null/void, none/use name, kitty]Fact checking and technical diagnosis, I appreciate your contributions to the platform.
Your app would ideally just respect display names and it would require no extra effort on your part to gender people correctly.
Even if pronouns aren’t displayed, it takes even less effort to use neutral pronouns for everyone unless you know otherwise.
And how does one do that while meming “the man, the myth, the legend”?
They can find another line, or skip trying to be funny altogether if the only way they can think of is gendered and they can’t be arsed to check the gender of the person they’re talking to.
And lets be honest - it wasn’t that good a joke.
Either way, it really isn’t fucking difficult, and is definitely easier than whatever the fuck this mess is.
Mess seems like a strong word to use. So, to clarify, you’re saying that you are of the opinion that unless you’re sure of an internet strangers pronouns, you shouldn’t use gender specific cultural references to refer to them when making a joke?
Pronoun police will get ya.
I’ve had people flip out at me on Lemmy for ‘misgendering’ it’s so ridiculous.
Like we don’t know if it’s a man or woman. It’s the internet, yknow?
I recommend sticking to gender nonspecific instead of defaulting to masculine.
God I hate it when people call animals “they”. Like “the dog doesn’t like their squeaky toy” - it’s a dog! Call it “it”! “The dog doesn’t like its squeaky toy”
If they say “the goose doesn’t like his ball” that is misgandering.
To be fair, some languages outside of English reserve “it” (or the equivalent 3rd person neuter pronoun) for “non-living” things. For people whose native language is one of those languages, calling an animal “it” may seem a bit too harsh even while speaking English.
It don’t like your comment…
“The dog likes his squeaky toy.”
Like everyone is fighting over gender in human race, I would like that you finally understand that dogs/cats/cows even the squirrel in your garden… Those are sentient living beings… Stop treating them like just a fucking object !
But even in English - if you are completely gender neutral - “the human does not like its work in the office” is the same.
Hummm… Maybe I don’t get all the grammatical rules in English, but it’s really disheartening to treat living beings as objects.
As I remember
Itis an article for objects and I would never consider my dog as an non-living object. He’s way more “human” than most people that I have encountered in my life.That is simply incorrect English, words have more referents than gender. Traditionally “it” is reserved for non-human things of all types, but definitely does not ever apply to a human, and calling someone an “it” without it first being requested by them is near-universally recognized as a dehumanizing insult.
If you don’t know then why are you using gendered pronouns for them?
I actually wasn’t but that’s a different story
And when you speak up about how useless all of this is your comment might get removed :O
I know that for some people it’s quite a struggle. Whether it is their focus, lazyness, energy levels, unwillingness during their toilet time or something else.
So, I’d say no. That’s why I usually just go for they/them too. Just like I would do when you don’t know in real life conversation
Then there are those of us who grew up in an era where usernames either didn’t matter or didn’t exist (depending on the platform), so you quickly became conditioned to just not reading their name let alone clicking into their whole account to see who they are. I am guilty of it, but people looking at your profile is creepy.
I know that on Reddit before I left, the only time I ever took a good hard look at someone else’s account is if they said something that made me so unbelievably angry that I had to look at everything else they said to find something to clap back with. By the time I would get partway through their post history, I would realize that I let a random stranger on the internet tilt me and then I’d calm down and feel stupid for a while before going back to my own business.
We are all strangers on the internet. Let’s keep it that way.
Right, do tell me how “semperverus” or “edie” tells me anything about gender? Yes, I know my profile is empty with just some comments, feel free to be as creeped out as you like.
Looking trough your profile I can’t figure out your gender either. Just a fanatic use of slurs
You are supposed to do deep research on the person you’re commenting to…
I barely even read usernames, plus Voyager App doesn’t show profile bios, so even if I wanted to check their profile I can’t and I’m sure as fuck not using the mobile website to get the information.
Same. Voyager doesn’t show it, I’ll do my best, but I’m not going to feel bad when I miss
That’s why I just stick with they/them, anyone who gets annoyed about me using that isn’t worth the energy, it’s an anonymous message board, I don’t know you, that’s my purse!
Dumbass here gets it!
Remember kids, moron is a genderless word that can be applied to anyone!
That’s not an excuse nor justification for misgendering anyone, neutral pronouns exist, use them.
If you tell me I will use them, I’m not a mind reader, I’m a dumbass with an internet connection.
If you get upset by someone using non gender neutral pronouns in general speech I don’t think you’re old enough to be on the Internet, and if you are we need to raise the age of access.
No.
Doesn’t really matter here. The saying is “the man, the myth, the legend”. If you go changing every part of it you might as well have not said anything at all because it won’t make any sense.
The Ma’am the myth the legend is right there though :D
Agree. Some expressions become so iconic they get genderless. Just like sometimes it’s accept to use “man” and “dude” as a genderless exclamation
I once got a temporary ban on another platform for arguing/suggesting that dude has become genderless.
I know multiple woman that use “dude” that way, but some people are somewhat understandably sensitive on the topic of gender.
Regardless of your opinion on whether dude has become genderless or not (I also use dude for my friends of any gender), the word is a gendered term that has become ubiquitous. If someone doesn’t want me to use “dude” referring to them, I won’t. It’s not good to assume, so until I know that someone doesn’t mind, I’m not going to use gendered terms contrary to their gender. I wouldn’t call a man “sis” or “girl” the same way I would women I’m friends with, unless I know that doesn’t make them uncomfortable. I wouldn’t call a woman “bro” or “guy” the same way I would men I’m friends with unless I checked. All of those terms are gender nonspecific for me, but they might make someone who doesn’t have my lived experience uncomfortable.
Exactly this.
Rule #21 of the internet: everyone is a guy
Addition 1: every women is actually a guy
Addition 2: every kid is an 18+ guy
Addition 3: little girls are FBI Agents
Yes, but it’s a guy dog.
Just be more careful with gendered language. Also, the trans flag was right there
I did not know that was the trans flag. Appreciate ya letting me know >_<
“The them, the myth… the X”. Forsure, that does seem more meme anyways.
What did you think it was… the flag of Cista Roca?
I am tickled by this and fully support your TIL process.
I thought it was an emoji of a piece of saltwater taffy.
Mmmm taffy
There are a lotta flags out there. Like dog, most Americans in NYC ouldn’t even point to Iraq on a map, many even pointing to the US when asked where Iraq was… As we were actively invading them post 9/11.
Id bet 100$ if there was a test of the general populace on knowing what that flag was, the pass rate would be below 5%.
As soon as I realized that it was similar to the Costa Rican flag but with 1 inversion, and switching the vowels of the latter out yielded “Cis”, I had to make the pun.
Dogs have a flag now? Truly woke has gone too far
Happy to help, and don’t feel down for the restriction, in today’s hellworld where people’s identities are constantly and violently challenged it’s hard to not be jumpy when something doesn’t seem right
I was staring at that username for quite a bit after reading the comment saying that it was in their username. I did not get it, either.
Even knowing that there’s a trans flag, and that that’s what is in the username, I wouldn’t know what pronouns to use.
Maybe a stupid question, but how do I tell from the flag whether that’s a trans fem or trans masc?
There are no stupid questions, but the one you should ask yourself is “should i try to use gender neutrale language and/or check their bio or should i not care and risk hurting someone?”
If you care about not hurting people, you’ll find the right answer, and if an honest mistake happens, own it and people will generally be understandable. It’s really not that different from common courtesy, it just isn’t the norm yet
I personally prefer to stick to gender neutral language in general. Maybe it’s my autism, but a lot of the time profiles don’t help me much unless there are preferences are listed explicitly
I too stick to gender neutral language in general, it just feels better to do so when i don’t know who is “in front” of me. When profiles don’t help I think it’s best to not assume anything and just speak neutrally
If it’s an ambiguous name you might have to check. Fortunately, Edie is an unambiguously female name, and the clear majority of binary trans people pick clearly gender-coded names.
Fortunately, Edie is an unambiguously female name,
Is it? My first glance would assume it’s some variant spelling of Eddie. Never run into anyone called Edie.
I suppose it’s unambiguous to you, but I had never heard of the name before
It… It is? I am not a native speaker but I would’ve for sure thought it was a male name…
It’s an unambiguos female name in english maybe. OP might be from an english-speaking country, but you really can’t make this sort of assumption on a global website
you really can’t make this sort of assumption
That was the original point about gendered language but you seem to have flipped it on its head.
I just got woooshed. My apologies.
I always read it as Eddie 👉👈
So, to be clear, you want people to treat trans people differently than everyone else?
deleted by creator
I’m not even interested in the username of the person I’m responding to. I tend to ignore it completely unless there’s a comment like “lol, username checks out”.
There are very few times I will bother to check someones profile. They have to either say something so awesome that I want to see more, or have given a take so hot I want to see if they’re trolling or if this is standard behaviour for them.
While it looks like the whole Jerboa/“miscommunication” thing has been sorted out here I want to chime in to say that no, I don’t think that checking profiles for anything is a reasonable expectation.
