Or maybe you still love it, but now you have a different perspective.
Do you maybe mean “Every Breath You Take” by The Police? That’s a common answer to this kind of question. A lot of people think of it as cute and romantic at first, but the song really talk about the Big Brother (from George Orwell’s 1984): a state of constant surveillance watching “every breath you take, every move you make”.
I could see it being a bit of both. Lyrics are often inspired by something and describing something else. In this case, someone stalking a former lover could be seen as “going full 1984’s Big Brother” on them… and it makes sense with the whole romantic mood that the song has: the stalker sees themself as romantic and sings it that way, but when you look closer you realise it’s actually very creepy.
I have no idea how anyone who’s even vaguely tuned into that song thinks it’s romantic.
Since you’ve gone, I’ve been lost without a trace
I dream at night, I can only see your face
I look around, but it’s you I can’t replace
I feel so cold, and I long for your embrace
I keep crying, baby, baby please
Oh, can’t you see
You belong to me?
How my poor heart aches
With every step you take?I understand the full lyrics, but most songs generally default to romanticism. If you’re not paying attention it’s easy to misinterpret.
If you’re not paying attention, you hear the “I’m watching you” part, which is creepy as fuck.
Heck, there a folks out there that still insist that “The Boys of Summer” is about baseball.
Uncle Kracker - Follow me. I used to sing the shit out of it, because I just liked the tune. Until I learn there was a whole different meaning than just “I’m the better guy” lyrics.
I still humm it, but it hits differently.
Running to the Sea - Royksopp. Now that I know it’s about some sort of terrorist attack, I just feel weird listening to it now
I liked Poor Leno though
Baby, It’s Cold Outside. It’s such a fun song as the guy and girl go back and forth. Until you realize that he’s guilting her into sleeping with him. Eww!
There is a version out there where they try to tone down the rapey elements. Sadly, it’s pretty clunky how they do it.
The song predates that by five years. https://www.goretro.com/2016/12/why-baby-its-cold-outside-is-not-about.html?m=1
Frank Loesser’s son, John, was interviewed about the song by the Palm Bean Post in 2010 that was reprinted on the official site for his dad. From the article:
“My father wrote that song as a piece of special material for he and my mother to do at parties,” says John Loesser, who runs the Lyric Theatre in Stuart, and is the son of legendary composer Frank Loesser (Guys and Dolls, How To Succeed In Business Without Really Trying.)
Frank Loesser’s wife, Lynn, was a nightclub singer who had moved from Terre Haute, Ind. to New York in search of a career. She was singing in a nightclub when she met Frank Loesser around 1930.
The song itself was written in 1944, when Loesser and his wife had just moved into the Hotel Navarro in New York. They gave a housewarming party for themselves and when they did the number, everybody went crazy.
“We had to do it over and over again,” Lynn Loesser told her kids, “and we became instant parlor room stars.”
Performers started to take note of the song, and record covers of it. It’s also featured in the 1949 musical comedy Neptune’s Daughter as sung by Ricardo Montalbán and Esther Williams below. And in that movie, it takes an ironic tone since the movie takes place in a warm climate. It also earned Loesser an Academy Award for Best Original Song.
Actually there weren’t any “rapey” elements at the time. They’re only there when viewed through a modern lense, completely ignoring the culture and standards of the time.
And the version where they tried to tone down the rapey elements was in 2019, shortly after the #MeToo movement. We are also having this conversation today, and not in 1949.
If you’re saying the standards of the time make it acceptable, I say that reflects really badly on the standards of the time. By the standards of the time, black people had fewer rights than white men. I hope to fuck we can improve upon the standards of the 1940s.
When people consume media it’s important to have context. Short-sighted inability to contextualize anything outside of our current standards doesn’t help anyone at all and actually makes understanding and moving forward more difficult.
If you’re saying the standards of the time make it acceptable, I say that reflects really badly on the standards of the time. By the standards of the time, black people had fewer rights than white men. I hope to fuck we can improve upon the standards of the 1940s.
The standards were quite different that’s for sure. That’s why it’s important to understand that it was a different era. An unmarried woman willingly staying with a man was destroying her reputation at that time even if she wanted to.
I understand that the film was not problematic for the time period, and it was seen as romantic. I also understand that the fact it was not seen as a problem was a fucking problem. And I understand that the only way to overcome a problem is to acknowledge that there is one. Hindsight is a fucking benefit, and with the benefit of hindsight, that song is pretty fucking rapey.
Once again, the song was played TWICE in the movie, and the second one was sung with a man being convinced to stay. It was not about reputation. It was about not wanting to be there.
Why are you so insistent that the woman saying no actually wanted it?
Because in the context of the song, she’s saying she wants to stay. I’ve never seen the movie you’re talking about so maybe it was played differently there but when the song was released it was obviously a duet between two people who wanted to “do stuff” but were unable to due to norms and societies judgement.
Why are you so insistent on portraying the woman as a victim and the man as rapist when that’s clearly not what was intended?
…No she fucking isn’t. She never says she wants to stay.
I simply must go (Baby, it’s cold outside)
The answer is, “No” (But, baby, it’s cold outside)She says no. He ignores her. I don’t give a fuck what was intended, I only care about what was said. What was said was a violation of consent. If you want the intent to reflect in the song to a modern ear (which are the only ears we have) then change the lyrics.
The original film the song appears (Neptune’s Daughter) in actually sings the song twice. The first one is very clearly “I want to leave” vs “but you can’t.” He literally takes the hat off of her head, and she seems very irritated throughout.
The second is a woman trying to stop a man from leaving, to the degree that he ends up putting her clothes on by mistake in an attempt to leave faster. And, as assault of men often is, it’s portrayed for laughs.
The entire song is someone refusing to take “no” for an answer. At no point does the typically female role ever make an excuse to STAY, only to LEAVE.
Edit: No idea why “the song where a man stops a woman from leaving is a bit rapey” is a controversial opinion.
I think you are mistaking the desire to leave as a personal desire and not an obligation due to social pressure.
The socond set of back and forth is all about other people’s expectations and then hesitsting.
My mother will start to worry (beautiful, what’s your hurry?)
And father will be pacing the floor (listen to the fireplace roar)
So really I’d better scurry (beautiful, please don’t hurry)
Well maybe just a half a drink more (put some records on while I pour)
Watch the damn scene. She is trying to brush him off. She wants to leave, and he is not letting her. She is politely saying no, and he is politely forcing her to stay. Even if it is due to social pressure, let her fucking leave.
“Well maybe just a half a drink more” is said when he has just snatched the coat off her back and is still holding it. Her face is a picture of resignation, not coy flirtation. She then asks “say, what’s in this drink” and puts it down with a scowl on her face.
This is flirtatious by the standards of a Sean Connery movie.
But you say they are coming up with excuses for her. There are no excuses provided there.
I didn’t know that. Looked it up. It was only publicly released around the film, and only sung at parties before that. Also, he sold the song without his wife’s consent and it almost ended their marriage.
Nope. In the original scene in Neptune’s Daughter, she is actively trying to leave and he is doing everything he can to stop her. Note that she never makes an excuse to stay, only to leave.
The song predates that by five years. https://www.goretro.com/2016/12/why-baby-its-cold-outside-is-not-about.html?m=1
Frank Loesser’s son, John, was interviewed about the song by the Palm Bean Post in 2010 that was reprinted on the official site for his dad. From the article:
“My father wrote that song as a piece of special material for he and my mother to do at parties,” says John Loesser, who runs the Lyric Theatre in Stuart, and is the son of legendary composer Frank Loesser (Guys and Dolls, How To Succeed In Business Without Really Trying.)
Frank Loesser’s wife, Lynn, was a nightclub singer who had moved from Terre Haute, Ind. to New York in search of a career. She was singing in a nightclub when she met Frank Loesser around 1930.
The song itself was written in 1944, when Loesser and his wife had just moved into the Hotel Navarro in New York. They gave a housewarming party for themselves and when they did the number, everybody went crazy.
“We had to do it over and over again,” Lynn Loesser told her kids, “and we became instant parlor room stars.”
Performers started to take note of the song, and record covers of it. It’s also featured in the 1949 musical comedy Neptune’s Daughter as sung by Ricardo Montalbán and Esther Williams below. And in that movie, it takes an ironic tone since the movie takes place in a warm climate. It also earned Loesser an Academy Award for Best Original Song.
I didn’t know that. So I looked it up, and it seems the intent of the song is to tell their guests to leave. Also, he sold the song without his wife’s consent, and it almost ended their marriage.
The song predates that by five years. https://www.goretro.com/2016/12/why-baby-its-cold-outside-is-not-about.html?m=1
Frank Loesser’s son, John, was interviewed about the song by the Palm Bean Post in 2010 that was reprinted on the official site for his dad. From the article:
“My father wrote that song as a piece of special material for he and my mother to do at parties,” says John Loesser, who runs the Lyric Theatre in Stuart, and is the son of legendary composer Frank Loesser (Guys and Dolls, How To Succeed In Business Without Really Trying.)
Frank Loesser’s wife, Lynn, was a nightclub singer who had moved from Terre Haute, Ind. to New York in search of a career. She was singing in a nightclub when she met Frank Loesser around 1930.
The song itself was written in 1944, when Loesser and his wife had just moved into the Hotel Navarro in New York. They gave a housewarming party for themselves and when they did the number, everybody went crazy.
“We had to do it over and over again,” Lynn Loesser told her kids, “and we became instant parlor room stars.”
Performers started to take note of the song, and record covers of it. It’s also featured in the 1949 musical comedy Neptune’s Daughter as sung by Ricardo Montalbán and Esther Williams below. And in that movie, it takes an ironic tone since the movie takes place in a warm climate. It also earned Loesser an Academy Award for Best Original Song.
In my late teens one of my friend gave me thumb stick with some poorly tagged mp3 mess. It was mostly black metal which I kind of liked (still do, some of it, sometimes when the mood is right). Years later I found out it was compilation of some NSBM bullshit. Not that it mattered in lyrics, as it was allindistinguishable, impossible to hear in true black metal “recorded band jam on a tape in one go from room next door” style, but still… People producing that pretty good music were probably the most degenerate retards in their countries (from USA, through France to Russia).
NSBM?
Already explained by others, so basically they were/are nazi scum.
National Socialist (Nazi) black metal
Oh. Yikes!
Richmen North of Richmond.
I love the sound, and at first it sounds like a pro worker union song (and it kinda is).
But there’s way too much dog whistle… An old soul in a new world… Dude the south lost and slavery is bad. I’m sorry
And then he slips in some super disappointing language about fat people on welfare.
An old soul in a new world… Dude the south lost and slavery is bad. I’m sorry
I think that’s an uncharitable reading. Which is understandable, but still.
I think that there are a lot of people–myself included–that would like to be able to make a living doing something that seems to matter, or where you make something. Like, factory work sucks in most ways, but it still feels like you’re doing something. Spreadsheets and order projections? Staring at a screen all day, sending polite emails to people you’ll never meet about ways to spend a lot of money electronically?
This “new world” of work and socializing ain’t great. I think it snuck up on a lot of people, and now a lot of people are feeling like they don’t know how to navigate the new reality of depersonalization.
I agree. Nearly every lyric in that song, when isolated, sounds fine and agreeable. Even when he attacks people on welfare “if you’re 5’- 3 and 300lbs, taxes ought not to pay, for your bags of fudge rounds.” Isn’t wrong.
Taxes shouldn’t be used by fat cats to get fatter. But he isn’t saying that. He is punching down and attacking a group of people who are suffering in “the new world” just like him, and a fucking bag of cookies is one of the few joys they can still aquire. He could have chosen to attack the elite, even if he only meant the ones to the North. He didn’t.
“It’s a damn shame, what the world’s gotten to, for people like me, and people like you.”
Sounds great. Now picture his audience. Who are they, and who are they thinking of when they hear that line?
This song is called “Richmen North of Richmond.” It’s the Northerner’s fault all these bad things are happening.
It’s that movie with Rowdy Piper and the glasses. You have to put them on to see the whole message. Dog whistling at its finest.
If he had made a few small changes it could have been a powerful pro-worker lament and I would be playing it to death. Instead it was #11 on Trump’s “Standing on the stage for 44 minutes swaying back and forth because America is so easy to con so why not?”
It’s a damn shame.
He is punching down and attacking a group of people who are suffering in “the new world” just like him, and a fucking bag of cookies is one of the few joys they can still aquire.
I know a lot of people that are quite overall politically liberal that feel this way. I know a lot of people that get upset at the idea of inmates being given “free” educations in prison because they still have student loans 20 years after school. People that support the ideas of helping people up, that are fully on board with LGBTQ+ rights across the board, think DEI is a good idea, think it’s critical that women have bodily autonomy, and so on, but still have a knee-jerk reaction to things that they don’t fully get, or haven’t had explained to them.
I don’t know if he meant the song that way, or what. I do know that the people coming into the White House in a few months aren’t likely to make things any better for people like him. Or people like you. Or people like me.
Wish I could just wake up and it not be true.
But it is. Oh it is.
Dude the south lost and slavery is bad. I’m sorry
WTF? Don’t be sorry about that!
I know it’s just sort of a reflexive idiomatic politeness, but still, it is really important to make it absolutely crystal clear how irredeemably contemptible the “lost cause” shit take is, at every opportunity. Never, ever be polite about it!
Thank you.
“The south lost and slavery is bad, kindly get fucked.”
Sorry as a Canadian and a woman I just can’t not be polite…
Oh, no. We make an exception for Canadians. We know that if you stop being polite, Geneva is going to have to cut down a forest to write new regulations.
Yes he did. Sherman stopped before he hung the traitorous leadership.
Yeah, never leave that job half done.
Shh, Don’t let Israel hear you!
I’m learning so much from these comments…
I think it’s really interesting how people interpret music completely different than other forms of art. People sometimes assume the worst instead of realizing that the singer is speaking from another perspective. So for example if a writer has a first person perspective of a killer/rapist you wouldn’t make an association that the author is anything of the sort. But if they wrote a song and sang it then people would question if they really felt that way. Polly is a great example. By many accounts (Kathleen Hanna , Kim Gordon) Cobain championed feminism and woman’s rights but the lyrics of Polly are brutal and from the perpetrator view. Randy Newman’s - Rednecks is a tough one to listen to. You can understand how it is trying to point out ignorance and racism like Blazing Saddles but it’s sung in first person and should never be played in a public setting. Oingo Bongo’s - Little Girs was always a bit creepy now seems to age poorly the more time has gone on. Minor Threat - Guilty of being white is a tough listen because you know racist people think this is a rallying cry instead of the emotionly reaction from a a teenage kid who was bullied in highschool for being white.
So for example if a writer has a first person perspective of a killer/rapist you wouldn’t make an association that the author is anything of the sort.
That does happen all the time in movies, shows, books, and other forms of art. “What kind of a person would come up with that” isn’t an uncommon accusation.
Vladimir Nabokov got criticized and accused over writing Lolita all the time.
If you know anything about the history of punk music and east coast hardcore, Ian MacKaye was clearly one of the most principled people in the scene, and a genuinely good and decent person. So it’s really weird to hear that people ever got the weird idea that he was pro-racism or something.
Then again, The Dead Kennedys had to make “Nazi Punks Fuck Off” because they were sick of their shows being infiltrated by the wrong kind of skinheads.
Oh I know. But minor threat and black flag used to have these neoNazis show up at their shows. I think he acknowledged that once he realized they wanted to use his frustration for oppression they stopped playing it. I think it was in, “this band could be your life”. Much like X hating the fans who cheered on “Johnny hit and run Pauline” from “decline of the western civilization”. It’s crazy how people twist things.
Someone should make a spotify Playlist of all of these songs
Hard Habit To Break by Chicago is pretty straightforward, but I liked it on the radio as a kid because it’s peppy and has an orchestra.
Decades later I get access to music service libraries and give it a listen.
I was a jerk and you left me, and now you’re with another guy. I’m not sorry. I’m not going to do better. But I have an orchestra!
I still like it, but have perspective now.
Not sure, if I stopped listening to mainstream music around that time, but uh, both of my examples are from 2011, apparently:
- Kind of a classic response to this question, is “Pumped Up Kicks” from Foster The People. It’s got that upbeat melody, and the lyrics are this:
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks
You’d better run, better run, outrun my gun
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks
You’d better run, better run, faster than my bullet.- And my other example is “The A Team”, apparently originally from Ed Sheeran, and apparently also with an upbeat melody. I think, I only ever listened to a cover version. But yeah, it’s about drug use and sex work, and how those kind of necessitate each other…
I think pumped up kicks is actually a really poignant statement on how normalized gun violence is in the states, to the point where this song was all over radios and I’m sure all over high school dances and nobody thought twice about it. Like obviously the band did it intentionally but the fact that the point was missed so hard by everyone who sang along. It is like Hey Ya vibes to me, or smells like teen spirit for the older crowds. The point is to take these very serious ideas and use them to highlight people’s willful ignorance.
Constipated by Weird Al. That changed me.
Constipation blues - Screamin’ Jay Hawkins
A song about true pain.
Mr Brightside by the Killers. The tune was good and felt energetic when it came about, but it’s about a guy being cheated on. Having had someone cheat on me around the time it came out it hit really close to home and I just don’t enjoy listening to the song.
The problem with being in the UK is that it’s so overplayed and I just have to tune it out.
No, it’s a song about a nice guy not getting his crush.
I second one of the other commenters who says that the song is about the perception of being cheated on. It’s funny, after the first day I ever went on with my partner that song played and for a little while we considered it our song, then eventually kind of faded as they both realized the song didn’t relate to us very well. Now I can look back years later, after going through a lot of therapy and self enrichment and I can realize that those kind of paranoia really did plague our early relationship. I’m glad that we were able to move on from it
It’s not. It’s about a guy who can’t beat jealousy and believes he’s being cheated on “except it’s all in [his] head”
Ah my bad. I thought the song was written by Brandon Flowers after catching his girlfriend cheating on him in a bar in his hometown of Las Vegas.
https://www.radiox.co.uk/artists/the-killers/what-is-the-killers-song-mr-brightside-about/
During lockdown in April 2020, the frontman looked back at the video and noted: “It’s just a song about betrayal. I was betrayed and I was able to turn it into a masterpiece”.
From the article “The lyric is about a man who is obsessed with a girl that is seeing another man… and the thoughts that go through his head, imagining what they’re doing behind closed doors…” I guess I was wrong, it’s envy not jealousy.
Closing time by Semisonic I thought it was about going home with someone after a night out at the bar. It’s about the lead singers child being born.
Seriously? Well he could have made that more clear.
Sort of, Dan Wilson said he had the idea while writing the song because his wife was pregnant so he slipped it in as a double entendre. It’s like 90% bar closing with a couple lines alluding to being born: “Closing time, this room won’t be open till your brothers or your sisters come”.
Did he sing about his wife’s womb as a pub that’s closing and expelling the drunkards?
Hey there Delilah
The dude who wrote it is a creep
Dang. Just looked it up. It’s a song about a girl he met once and was dating someone else, but he still wrote a damn ballad and sent her a copy. Then she had to live her life surrounded by a song about a stranger’s feelings for her.
And looking at the lyrics, they’re sweet if said about a long-distance partner, but really weird to sing to a vague acquaintence.
It’s also one of the most inescapable songs on public radio ever.
