NGL, not asking for a friend. Given the current trends in US politics, it seems prudent to at least look into it.
Most of the online content on the topic seems to be by immigration attorneys hustling ultra rich people. I’m not ultra rich. I have a job in tech, could work remotely, also have enough assets to not desperately need money if the cost of living were low enough.
I am a native English speaker, fluent enough in Spanish to survive in a Spanish speaking country. I am old, male, cis, hetero, basically asexual at this point. I am outgoing, comfortable among strangers.
What’s good and bad about where you live? Would it be OK for a outsider, newcomer?
Okay I’ve read about three comments and I’m gonna need someone to explain the connotation behind the word “expat” because the only definition I can find is “Someone who resides outside their country of origin.”
The way I’ve seen it, it appears to primarily be used by the various British and former British colonies, including the US. For these groups, anyone from outside the colonies living in “our” territory is an immigrant (who is certainly a lower class!). However, if we choose to reside in another country, we are not immigrants, we are “expats”.
Not everyone uses this term, but those that do frequently congregate in English speaking enclaves and make no attempt to integrate into their new home. They often see the locals as a sort of servant class, particularly because they probably came with enough money or income to make them wealthy by local standards.
As you might imagine, people with this attitude are probably not very popular with locals.
Very online folks word lawyering to the n-th degree. Language shifts and has different meanings in different countries.
To play along, I’ve heard “expat” to refer to someone on a work appointment with a fixed timeline, say, someone who works for Microsoft being sent to France for 2 years. I’ve heard many Americans say “I’m immigrating to” to mean they are going through permeant resident or citizen pathways with the host country.
Others have a different read of the word, but as long as you aren’t a jerk wherever you are going, it won’t ever come up
Americans view the terms immigrant and immigration negatively
If you’re a nurse or some other skilled professional in some specific fields… We have kind of a labor shortage with some jobs here in Germany. I live in the city, should be okay for outsiders. I guess.
I’d recommend to visit a place before considering to move. See how the people act. And you’d need to learn the language to be able to take part in regular every day life. (Edit: And for most jobs.)
Ja, aber man braucht wenigstens b2 für eine Ausbildung zu machen. Das gelt auch für wenn man möchte als Pflegefachmann/frau arbeiten
Ja genau, Deutsch für mich persönlich war/ist schwierig, aber es ist nicht so kompliziert wie es auf Youtube oder Tiktok erklärt werden. Ich schätze, dass es viel einfacher als Arabisch ist.
Beim Sprachen lernen kommt’s immer drauf an wo man her kommt/welche Sprache die Muttersprache ist.
Wer als Deutschsprachiger Japanisch lernt hat es z.b. schwieriger als jemand, der schon Chinesisch kann und Japanisch lernt, weil die Sprachen in den Regionen mehr Ähnlichkeiten haben.
Andererseits ist es für uns Deutsche einfacher Englisch zu lernen als z.b. für die Japaner, weil Englisch und Deutsch vom Aufbau relativ ähnlich sind.
Ja, Englisch und Deutsch sind auch beides germanische Sprachen, sind also durchaus enger verwandt. Wobei ich finde, Englisch ist auch sowieso eine der einfachsten Sprachen zu erlernen. Man muss kein der/die/das mitlernen, die unregelmäßigen Verben sind finde ich ein Witz gegen Deutsch und Französisch (was ich mal in der Schule hatte), wo es ja zu jeder Regel ohnehin zig Ausnahmen gibt … Ich hab mal etwas im Internet herumgeschaut, die Leute sagen man kann B2 Deutsch so in circa 1-2 Jahren nebenher erlernen.
First of all, stop using word “expat” when you’re talking of immigrants but from “better countries”
I’d love to see countries mark “expat” as an option on forms…
Just as a trap to filter them all out.
It was literally in the last couple of weeks that I first came across this. I thought it just meant ‘a person living in a country in which isn’t their home country’ regardless of origin, etc. The only thing I thought of it is that it wasn’t necessarily permanent whereas immigrant to me had permanence. It’s wild that, to me, it seems to have come out of nowhere.
Hard agree, expat as a term only exists because white people wanted to separate themselves from those they deem ”lesser immigrants”
I moved to Japan from Sweden, I only call my self an immigrant because that’s what I am
PewDiePie is that you?
Haha I wish, but sadly not
That’s some old fashion ‘us versus them,’ kinda thinking.
I call myself a cultural refugee, if anyone asks.
Yes, this is exactly how I would define it.
I also don’t think it imparts a general pro/anti integration with locals (not to say some assholes aren’t out there).
If I was thinking of immigrating elsewhere, I’d want to be near a few other people from my country who’ve been there longer than me, if only to make the transition easier and to get help with any issues specific to people from the same place.
I always saw expats as something between immigrants and tourists. They aren’t trying to switch countries and they aren’t just on vacation. There’s plenty of good reasons for this category, like being sent somewhere by your employer. This naturally creates a community of foreigners who aren’t necessarily worried about fitting in as a new citizen or permanent resident would be.
But yeah, this idea that Western countries have expats instead of emigrants is weird.
Ive usually seen “Expat” defined as someone working in another country, but explicitly with the intent to be there temporarily and leave once their time at that job ends, rather than moving there with an intent to stay and join that society. Which, granted, doesnt seem to be what OP is actually talking about in this case.
It’s short for “expatriate.” I’m not saying it isn’t used in the way you described, but that’s not the original meaning.
What OP is talking about has been a thing since the 90s and even 80s and earlier with ex-military.
Move to a cheap country where your pension/disability/passive income/whatever makes you wealthy.
Originally places liked it because it was an influx in cash. But then it became too popular and they were gentrifying places to the point locals couldn’t afford to live and these leeches never worked.
It became big again with the internet when people became able to work and American job while overseas remotely. But by now most American companies just won’t pay American wages. If they wanted someone overseas they’d pay them the low wage they always do.
With those younger people they added the “temporary” because they say they’ll move back someday.
What you’re talking about (if the job is in that country) would be a migrant worker.
But they also don’t like that label, they think they’re better than it.
I’d argue we should call all migrant workers expats. Unless they’re literally working in a migratory fashion, spring here, summer there, fall somewhere else, etc.
Thats just the expats changing the narrative when people started calling them out on it.
Americans don’t want to be grouped in with “dirty non-white immigrants” so they consider themselves expats even if they intend the move abroad permanently.
That’s what it means but some people use it wrong and some people complain about it being used wrong, wrongly
Here in Scotland / the UK you’d be absolutely fine so long as you’re a decent person. There’s not even a language barrier beyond dialect, and dialects vary hugely within the UK and each part of the UK anyway. Just please don’t insist that your great-great-grandmother is actually from Clan MacWhatever.
Does establishing some kind of ancestry actually do anything? I did a whole report on my great great grandfather on my mother’s side and learned about the name and the clan. Still remember the motto and official plaid and all that jazz. Never once considered it’d ever be relevant to anything.
It is fun seeing “nec sorte, nec fato” pop up ocassionally tho.
I live in southwestern England, and make it clear that I have no ancestral ties to the place, I just like living there. People seem OK with that answer.
What if my mom grew up across the road from Bellahouston Park?
Lots of Americans here in London, UK. They’ve generally been transferred by their company though. I expect it’s v hard to get in when applying for a new job.
I never even considered the UK, in spite of having English friends here in the states, and US friends currently living there, and enjoying it. My limited knowledge is that visa issues are problematic, and the cost of living is rather high. Culturally it would be great.
The UK spent hundreds of years searching for and taking home all the culture they could due to specifically not having any culture whatsoever back home. They also used that culture like they used their spices, which is not at all. The English are a terrible example of humanity and should not be recognized as anything other than the barbarians they are.
The UK should absolutely give back cultural artifacts it took from around the world, but everything else you said is silly.
I think that was the point. To be silly.
There’s much more to culture than artifacts. Besides a few encounters in London, I’ve seldom encountered “terrible examples of humanity” here. Mostly, people are friendly, or at worst, indifferent.
Just like the “nice” Germans right around 1935 and 1940
I think you’d be fine here in Australia but that depends on whether you have a job or not. Australia is good for anyone who comes with employment already. Otherwise its Work And Holiday visa pathways are better suited to younger people because of the usually physical and demanding nature of the jobs available.
Otherwise Argentina would also be legally okay for you, however I haven’t lived there for a very long time so I can’t say for sure. It would be a lot less safe for foreigners than Australia but I hear it wouldn’t be more rough than some of the rough places in the US. You will want a stable source of income ideally from a remote job, such as freelancing for clients that can pay with dollars or euros. You will also want a friend who’s native or already well established so they can teach you the ropes socially/locally and with the current state of the country. I would personally not go back to Argentina without a stable income because making a livable income inside the country is going to be next to impossible.
I’m roughly between b2 and c1 in German after living here for 2 years. I met another American who has lived here for 12 years and spoke lower than a1 german. I could only speak to him in English. Don’t be like that guy.
I’d say currently in Germany it’s all depending on which state you pick. Bayern z.B. is the most international place I’ve ever lived. The people here (speaking from my view point) are very loving and caring. I feel my day with small talk and jokes and have no problem making friends, which is the opposite of what I read from others on the internet.
So I guess it all depends on where you live, how hard you work to integrate yourself, and most importantly is TRY to learn the language for gods sake.
Either way best of luck to you and enjoy your journey!
Canada would be easy, but you cannot just go there and work
I would be doing that too, but you got to understand that other countries have other cultures, some things wil be better like free heathcare and better labour laws but other are not “as good”. In europe they do control a lot of things we can access on the internet for example. If someone doesn’t comply with an EU regulation they will be punished, it’s not 'freedom of speach" without consequences like in the US. Also being entitled like many americans are will not work here. So like everything in life some people will be a good match for.one country and others for other countries.
I’m really curious about what you think you’re not being allowed to visit on the internet.
I can’t think of a single thing that’s ‘blocked’.
Unless you’re under 13, of course, in which case I concede there are a lot of restrictions - but that’s a good thing.
i think that the only blocked sites are gambling related and not even everywhere at that
more.like some youtube videos or some sites that didn’t comply with GPDR. It’s been a while since I had a problem like this but to be fair I was just giving an example of regulations that exist to protect us, that we support, but that goes against the “american way”
Ah, ok - that’s fair.
I thought you were implying that we had some kind of firewall like China or something!
I agree, US sites geolocking their content is sometimes a pain, but I get your meaning. We do tend to be more comfortable with our governments trying to protect us than the Americans seem to.
that was exactly what I meant! I may not have expressed correctly. Thanks! :)
They don’t want to serve up their articles if they can’t do intrusive tracking. It’s a scummy practice that breaks the Web.
If you want to read the article, go to archive.is and paste in the URL.
In my country you’d be locked up at a random moment of your stay. Tortured in prison, used as a trading chip in a complex web of international intrigue and diplomacy. Accused of terrorism. Paraded for political manipulation of the masses. Then unceremoniously put in a plane to Canada so US authorities can go pick you up. But it would be very nice and welcoming up to that point.
Russia?
Here in Brazil anything and anyone from outside (except neighbors and Chinese products) is automatically seen as better. South of the tropic is very chill and safe, you would be quite fine; north of the tropic starts getting very dangerous, but there are still some safe places in larger cities.
The Netherlands is generally quite friendly towards (English speaking) immigrants and expats. Almost everyone speaks English and no one really bats an eye at a non-Dutch resident in most of the major western cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague, etc.)
Housing is terrible though, prices are high and it’ll be hard to find something nice. One advantage for you (or any US resident), is that you’re exempt from the inburgering exam. Which means that you won’t have to learn the language and won’t be tested on your integration in Dutch society.My partner is from abroad and they’ve experienced living here as quite pleasant. They weren’t exempt from the exam though (different non-EU nationality), which was a bit of a nuisance. But in general, reception was positive. They’ve been living here for over 16 years now.
But like most of Europe, we’ve got a far-right government right now, so there’s a lot of anti-immigration talk going round. Of course it’s only aimed at what they think are the “wrong” (Middle-Eastern and African) kind of people, so I doubt Americans would ever have to deal with it.How trans friendly is the Netherlands? I like bikes and tall people are hot, lol.
It’s generally LGBTQ friendly especially in Amsterdam but as the other comment said there’s also a far right movement going on so it’s not all roses and rainbows.
Ireland is full of tech jobs that pay well and that’s the only way to live well here right now since basics are so expensive. Housing is a big issue, but that’s not just our problem. Come on over, you’d be welcomed.
I don’t know why but this is the first place I actually thought to move after Trump won again… I’ve never even been able to afford a house here…
I would love to take my family to some place that is more accepting of interracial relationships/children. because we all knew it was racist country but I didn’t realize how racist it was until trump won again…
I could see them trying to end interracial marriage just like they want to outlaw same sex…
Ireland has its share of racists unfortunately but also fairly open. It’s a changing country.
Yeah racists are everywhere unfortunately… I don’t get it… I know there is a huge drinking problem… But it’s Ireland you have to kinda expect that
I’m not sure but it might be less of a problem with younger generations. They seem to be all round healthier which is great
Yeah bloody racists. It’s bringing out the anti racists though which is also great to see.
I would absolutely love to be in Ireland! Well, I mostly just want to sit and listen to the elderly talk about the days before they went to shit.
That sounds like you want to listen to taxi drivers. Elderly people know that things are better now than before.
Yeah… I just remembered my History classes covering Ireland - it’s much better. And boy oh boy if I could afford taxi’s!
Wanna move and work remotely for your current company I guess? Why should we welcome you instead of someone who wants to come here to fill up a vacant position that we don’t have workforce for?
You can’t have your cake and eat it too just because you’re angry that the wrong guy got elected. There are people around the world getting bombed, they’re the people who need to get out of their country, not a tech bro that could just move to a State that reliably elected Democrats.
Welcome to EU! Prepare for a cultural shift:
Considering that everyone on lemmy is 30+ communist tech worker, it’s probably a welcome change
Speaking more specifically about Poland, depending on how you measure, we might have the most rapidly secularizing society in the world Some Americans (catholic fundamentalists) seem to think that you can just barge in, snatch a tradwife and plot of land and live like it’s 50s, but these people are straight up delusional. Introducing ban on abortion, for example, erased full quarter of support for the party that did it (40% ish to 30% ish overnight) and caused largest protests since dissolution of Soviet Union. There are conservative women, but these tend to be 60+
In tech job market specifically, the bubble has ended (like everywhere else i guess), but if you’re a senior or able to keep your current job you’ll be fine (not sure how you’d get residence permit then). You’d need to lean Polish as a practical matter, because while lots of people do speak decent English, many don’t (esp. 50+ and in small towns) and many official matters can be done in Polish only. Like everywhere else, there’s division between more conservative rural areas and more liberal large cities; no one wants to live in the former, even locals, and so most of foreigners live in Warsaw (or Kraków, or Wrocław). It sounds like you’d blend in right away in one of these places. While property prices and rent went up since start of the plague, it’s not as crushingly bad as in, say, Berlin or Rotterdam. Random benefits include ability to pirate absolutely everything without VPN with no consequences and ability to use complaint as a conversation starter
That’s really funny - my very Catholic mom is going to Poland next year with some church group and the priest, lol…I apologize for her in advance!
I’ve always wanted to visit Poland and still hope I can, one day. But no weird Catholic shit!
I’m guessing she’s going to Częstochowa?
Is that the church in the salt mine? That’s the only place she’s mentioned so far, but I don’t recall the name or if she even said it, really. She may have just read about it and not known how it was pronounced.
That’s Wieliczka salt mine, sounds more like a regular tourism and less like pilgrimage. At least it’s not Licheń, plastic-clad tourist trap monstrosity where you have unique opportunity to get scammed by our only televangelist (whose main medium is radio, and is catholic)
Częstochowa is on a hill, that’s a big centuries old monastery. Frequent pilgrimage target
She may be going to more places but that’s the only one she mentioned specifically.
That’s Wieliczka. There’s more to it than the church, it’s pretty cool, but you’re liable to be salty on you ur way back up.
I want to say on that cultural shift, having lived my entire life in the dark blue sections of the US… that would be such a freaking welcome change.
Also fucking shocked that Kansas ISN’T dark blue.
I never thought about it before, but I agree - you can start a conversion by complaining.
Living in Poland all my life, I also would like to mention it feels really safe here (as a white male, so…).
Unless you’re into football, or low quality clubbing you’ll be hard to find violent crime. Domestic violence and related murders do happen, but you’ll be hard pressed to get yourself mugged or assaulted these days.
You can pay by card or via app (blik) nearly anywhere, small village shop, street produce vendor, food truck, anywhere. If they don’t want your card they are probably doing some tax fraud, or are bad at finding low card payment fees.
TL;DR: I’ve travelled a bit, and I really don’t think I’d rather live anywhere else.
I guess it’s good to hear that things are changing for the better, I emigrated from Poland when I was a child to Norway and my perception of Poland is a far less favourable one lol
Though my entire polish family are also very religious and conservative so
look up all the weird shit polish immigrants are up to in Chicago. You’d think they’re living in 20s or at least 70s
I really enjoy visiting Poland. Polish people are often warm, talkative, creative and many have travelled outside Poland. I’ve had infrequent encounters with belligerent drunks, but it never got to the point of being threatening.
If I were to move there, though, I think it’d take a lot of effort to learn Polish.
