Europeans are just as susceptible to racism as Americans.
There was an Old sub reddit of people from the Balkans shitting on everyone.
Until a westoid posted and they all piled on them.
Their racism puts ours to shame. Like an old wine. They have cultivated their strain of racism since before America was a thought.
Can’t compete lol
Westoid
God I miss this level of Shitposting
When there aren’t any people with foreign backgrounds to be racist at, you simply get racist at your neighbors.
You don’t understand. Your neighbors are the foreigners.
Can sadly confirm. European racism is just a different flavor of racism: there are always other European ethinicities to be racist against, especially Romani people, the latest trend seems to be discrimination against Muslims/people from the Middle East, and of course antisemitism is a timeless classic.
I’ve seen white europeans be like “I’ve never encountered any racism in europe!” Well that is because you are white
White doesn’t really have the same connotations in europe. There’s sadly plenty of racism, but the skin tone isn’t the main discriminator.
As a European myself, never mention the Romani people to anyone here unless you want to hear the most degenerate, racist diatribe you can conjure up in your mind. (half hyperbole half not)
As a north american who lives in Europe, agreed. However, the gypsies do not help their own case. They show up in my region every summer, illegally camp wherever they want on private property, and leave huge piles of trash wherever they’ve been. I’ve personally seen them getting into all sorts of debauchery, including breaking into people’s mail boxes and stealing bikes in plain sight. I have nothing against them and I’m sure their culture is extremely rich and interesting, but no one has the inherent right to just rip off the rest of society without consequences. Also, of course they aren’t all stealing and misbehaving, but I understand where people’s preconceived notions come from.
Hey, maybe don’t throw slurs around.
Sounds like the homeless problem where I live. Except the seasonal part
I had no idea this existed. Is there a historical reason for it?
Over simplified, because Romani are usually nomad, they live in moving settlements and don’t typically integrate much wherever they settle in. A lot of the hatred they receive also stems from these settlements being illegally set up in private/public property, as well as how they result in a lot of trash being dumped everywhere. There is also an issue with Romani criminality (stealing, damaging property, and sometimes there are even shootouts between different Romani families which result in casualties).
There is also a perceived notion that governments do not want to deal with these problems, which further fuels the hatred against the Romani as they’re seen as criminals who get away with everything.
The truth of course lies somewhere in the middle. Most Romani are not bad people if you take the time to know them, but there is definitely a lot of toxic cultural norms being perpetuated by leaders of many Romani families, which doesn’t help with clearing the stereotypes, and with very little to no integration between the Romani and the cultures they are in, it’s hard to get rid of the animosity.
Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate it.
There’s probably history too, but in many cities in EU there’s a lot of assumed roma beggars living in the streets, which means it’s a pretty in-your-face practical issue to deal with every day.
No shit,
HitlerSherlock. ;)That’s elementary, my dear
ChurchillWatson.
Yep. I thought I knew about racism, and then I read some comments on some hearts of iron subreddit about Romani.
This. So many Europeans act with superiority because “at least we don’t shoot kill them” when looking at US police brutality, but e.g. we ignore how those cops in US mostly use Glocks made in Austria, making us part of the problem (and making a profit out of it). Or if we look at the deaths numbers, we ignore the many deaths the “protection” of our borders cause.
Yes they did actually. 4 days ago :)
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Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I’ve heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
I’ve had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there’s something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more “it is the way it is” attitude. I’ve heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less “hate for hate’s sake” but instead “it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct”. Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they’re racist.
I’ve heard Europeans call Turks ‘filthy’ and ‘roaches’ and Africans ‘monkeys’. And don’t get me started on the things said about the Romani.
I don’t think there’s a difference in how tribalistic or vicious it is.
Weird. I haven’t.
Making sure I’m reading this right…I know a guy who claims he isn’t sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren’t as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn’t sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
Is that similar to what you’re saying?
Not a bad way of comparing it tbh
Did you type ‘females’ instead of ‘women’ for the sake of the argument or did you get caught up in it as well?
Guess I got caught in it. Just looked it up and didn’t realize until now that female wasn’t an acceptable word to use. TIL. Thanks!
The easy way to understand and remember is that “female” is an adjective the vast majority of the time, and it’s usually misogynists and incels using it as a noun.
I think mysoginists just have a lot of spotlight on them, or are vocal. I hadn’t been aware of “female” being used as a slur before it was pointed out here on Lemmy. I think “female” as a noun is still used neutrally far more often than as a slur.
As an adult female human, I have never been called a “female” in a positive or neutral tone. The key point is that you basically never hear people calling men “males” anywhere outside of scientific discussion.
Wow, you’ve really succinctly put it best! Being a European myself, this is how I constantly feel when I hear racist shit in my daily life (mainly from family).
It’s like, people here just can’t even fathom that what they’re saying is racist, that they’re racist, because to them what they’re saying is just a simple fact of life that everybody accepts. They don’t show open animosity towards minorities or throw racial slurs like you’d see more in America (though there is definitely some of that here too don’t get me wrong), but it’s a very casual, low-key form of racism where folks comment on X group of people all being one way and no one batting an eye for example.
And if you so much as suggest they’re racist, or the country they’re in has or had issues with racism and other issues of oppression, a lot will legit fight you tooth and nail over it because they can’t handle the notion of it.
It’s really freaking weird and took me a lot of time to be conscious of it myself, since I grew up surrounded by this sort of attitude.
And it’s not just right-leaning people doing this. Some minorities like the Romani are openly discriminated by just about everyone across the political spectrum, the degree just varies. And then based on the country you’ll typically see a lot of Xenophobia towards the bigger migrant groups.
blacks
While we’re on the topic, I think “black people” is the preferred term (in general it’s adjectives over nouns, like “gay people” vs “gays”)
I’ve heard people of all types use the word ‘blacks’ I think it’s a regional thing.
It’s more likely a field thing. People who work in fields highly dedicated to equity (esp. those working in healthcare) are especially concerned with their language and so create style guides that people outside those fields have gleaned from.
Example:
Hey fair enough. I use whites so I tend to use the same kind of term in the other direction, too. I don’t mean anything insulting by it
And even then the European countries that feel they’re ahead of the rest tackling racism it’s usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn’t have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
Very true
I have been surprised by how racist many Brits are
sexist too.
Just ask a Mexican person what it’s like to travel to Spain
Ask a Spanish or Portuguese person what it’s like to travel to France or Belgium. Italians used to face racism in other European countries a few generations ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Dogs_or_Italians_Allowed
Definitely agree on the “Europe is just racist in a different way.” Outside of the obvious ones (like Middle East & Africa), I’d also add racism/xenophobia against “Eastern” Europe (like Poland), which might surprise Americans because they’re still white.
Most Europeans still have a casual sense of arrogance and superiority over the rest of the world. It’s not very heavy, but it’s there, even among some of the best people I know
I have a formal sense of arrogance, thank you.
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I don’t what the commenter is referring to specifically, but I encountered it as a young Australian working as a farm labourer. There were a couple of Germans working on the farm who looked down on me for having never travelled to Europe, and not being fluent in a second european language. The difference is that I was working for a living, and didn’t have the money for travel. They were just working there as an experience while travelling overseas. As an older person, I now see that as a class issue, but at the time I got the impression that Europeans were snobby. I suspect they just came from wealthier backgrounds.
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Yeah that’s a fair point. We make generalisations about people from other countries, but they’re not all the same. Later in life I lived in Germany while I was pursuing my engineering career, and felt more affinity with the engineers of similar background to myself than I do for rich people in my own country. Growing up in the 21st century in western countries somewhat blinds you to class awareness because the media and education system doesn’t discuss it but I feel that is starting to change now as online interaction breaks down those legacy barriers.
The American South equals the European East
But Portugal is on the other side.
but… we already know this
Europeans like to pretend they’re innocent, but they are the benefactors of most the damaging empires to have ever existed. They colonized nearly the entire world, extracting value from other cultures while destroying them. They pulled out once it was financially wise, keeping the wealth they extracted and leaving behind the destruction they created. They then blame everyone else for their issues while bragging about how awesome the EU is while overlooking that the EU is only possible due to the wealth they stole from everyone else. Europe likes to discuss that they had their social hardship discussing WWII, but the origin and impact of WWII there was internal to Europe. Had Europe been subject to colonization from elsewhere, it would be just as much a mess as other places. Look at the situation in former Soviet Pact countries that were practically colonized by Russia for maybe half a century. Now imagine if instead of half a century, it was hundreds of years and 5 times as brutal.
Fun fact: The term “colony” comes from Christopher Colombus’ name, which is Spanish is Cristobal Colon. Even the term colonization derives from a European.Apparently, that was incorrect.tl;dr: Europe got to where it is by destroying the rest of the world while blaming the rest of the world for their issues. Their critique of USA is merely a distraction from their own responsibility.
Yeah I think they’re aware of colonisation
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They’re still arrogant as fuck and most of the world can’t stand Europeans.
lol and what utopia do you hail from? bet it’s full of assholes and bastards too
I think that’s the point. Every country/culture/society has its own problems and it is quite grating when individuals from various countries act like their country’s problems aren’t as bad as everyone else’s or that their excuses are valid but no one else’s is.
NGL, it sounds like your describing Americans, sorry!
Which country did you live in?
Ah an aussie. Have clean hands do you? No racism there?
A stolen generation and a whole lot more I’m sad to say
The French love to riot and protest the govt. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_France.
The British frequently review and criticise it’s past actions https://www.jstor.org/stable/2637720
Of course, we also acknowledge the Norman and Roman invasions of Britain, but it happened so long ago we don’t expect the Italians or French to apologise about it now…
My apologies, I didn’t know about this. https://hir.harvard.edu/true-sovereignty-the-cfa-franc-and-french-influence-in-west-and-central-africa/
The Macron-Ouattara announcement represents a needed reform. But it is just one of many that needs to happen. Going forward, the challenge will be to keep the benefits of the CFA franc monetary zone, namely a stable currency and low inflation, while transitioning to a new institutional system away from France. A monetary system that holds a former colonial power as the guarantor, regardless of announcements or agreements, will always ultimately fail to eradicate neocolonialism.
Are you talking about Overseas France? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_France
Overseas regions have exactly the same status as France’s mainland regions.
Seems similar to Puerto Rico, Samoa and the others https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States
Germans? Germans talk about the Nazi crimes every other year in history class. They’ll read at least two books in lit handling the Nazis and the fallout. They have holocaust memorials big and small in every city. German government is up Israel’s ass because they’re jews. Every video game that could even have a slight chance of glorifying Nazis is banned. When Coca Cola wanted to bring back Fanta like it was made “in the good old days” they conjured a huge shit storm, had to pull everything and issue an apology. Nazis are still being prosecuted and sentenced today. Every so often a new big book or movie is released to big media fanfare that deals with Nazi history.
Maybe you’re talking about other colonisation efforts and genocides. They are also actively being acknowledged by government and media alike. They do get lost in this little war that completely shaped the whole world for the next 100 and probably more years.
Nazis are still being prosecuted and sentenced today.
You mean the French who criticize their government all day long for the past hundred years?
American are a lot more willing to criticize our ruling regime and half of us talk about how us is doing crimes actively… We know where out daddies obtained their capital.
This describes all of us. Remember class solidarity !
Really though?
Saying that with a straight face while a outright fascist is coming into power and every us billionaire is stepping in line to kiss their ring while the working class is doing nothing of importance. USians must be the most submissive culture in the world while actually thinking it’s the most revolutionary.
I’m not European, but do go off
Sounds like America
I guess Finland isn’t European by your description then 🤷🏻♂️
Had my Spanish brother in law over for the holidays. He says spanish schools teach that the spaniards were trying to civilize the natives and bring them a better life. And sure, some things went wrong, but that columbus should be seen as a hero. He strongly beleives it. I was floored. I thought that stuff was pretty settled. I showed him some info on the genocide of Hispanola, and he said he’d never seen that before, but that we cant judge what happened back then by todays standrads, and that the word genocide hadnt even been invented back then, and that method of conflict was normal back then.
There was a recent call in Barcelona to take down the Columbus statue, at least as early as 2016 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/27/call-to-topple-christopher-columbus-statue-from-its-barcelona-perch)
I live in Barcelona, and Colombus and colonization is definitely not a popular topic: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/12/spain-leftist-columbus-day-celebrations
On the other hand, Spain can still be quite racist, football players being a good example (https://www.ft.com/content/6801c79a-6325-4a2a-9d5d-1d99b37920ab, https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240610-fans-get-8-months-jail-for-racism-targeting-real-madrid-s-vinicius)
The word colony comes from the Latin word colonia. I guess you could say the Romans were “European colonizers” but their socioeconomic systems were fundamentally different from modern Europe.
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I don’t think Columbus was the origin of the word “colony”
It came from Latin so the claim is still right, but for the wrong reasons
The rest of your comment is great, but it would have taken a five-second check on https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/colony to make sure you got your etymology right (which you didn’t)
We don’t believe in generational sin, forced upon you because your grandparents did something bad either.
Lol the downvote brigade is here +11/-7 and on my other comment too, if I’m so wrong tell me why!
I will believe this when the British museum, the Louvre, etc are devoid of stolen (or very unfairly “purchased”) artifacts from former colonies. Generational responsibility may not be a thing, but institutional abuses spanning centuries that persist into the current day absolutely are.
Fair enough, but it’s quite far away from enslaving and murdering.
Edit: I see the difference between stealing versus raping, enslaving and murder. Not saying stealing is right, but there is more than a nuance to it lol.
Countries built their generational wealth on the backs of slaves though. Look at how, for instance, Belgium enriched itself though the horrific abuses in the Congo. While it’s true that no one alive was directly responsible, they still benefit from it.
It’s the trophies from the enslavement and murder. They didn’t get to keep the people, but they did keep souvenirs.
like serial killer trophies. They just cant help themselves.
At least serial killers acknowledge how they got those trophies instead of pretending they stole priceless cultural artifacts and vandalized them to match their own aesthetics to “preserve and protect them” because the original owners would have just “squandered” those artifacts. (Looking at you, British Museum and your theft and desecration of the Elgin marbles.)
Ignoring the past doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, or that it has no bearing on the present. “Somebody else did it so the generational inequity is fine actually” is a terrible argument.
Agreed, but the sad sick thing is that as time goes on, the crime really does go away-- or any hope of it being remedied does. Justice delayed really is justice denied.
Which is not what I said. At all.
Putting words in other peoples mouth is not as good as you think it is.
Your reply was a nonsequitur as well
In whzt way is it a non sequitur ?
It’s not my job to educate you
Also, if you’re going to correct my misspellings, don’t misspell “what”
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Not Eurpoe specifically but I shared a rather basic comment on YouTube joking about Great Britain causing famines in India but its okay because they brought trains and the result is a mile long thread of pissed off UK suckers telling me I’m wrong, that there was no fammine, the Wikipedia article and its 300 sources are fake, and that the British empire totally went around modernizing civilization for the benefit of humanity. (Was a post about Irish complaining about a very crappy Irish History book made by a British author)
So I guess for any of those people, no GB was just a colonist empire racing to exploit the hell out of resources faster than France, Spain, and Portugal. The technology they brought was used almost exclusively in their conquest operations (Trains used to transport goods and resources) and they actively supported and supplied opposition groups to destabilize and overthrow governments similar to what the USA does today.
I mean seriously, they held immense power over China via opium and are responsible for practically every shill state in the middle east because they provided weapons to overthrow the Ottaman empire.
The iconic pan arab flag is actually a British designed flag given to all the opposition groups they funded to break up Ottaman power.
They fell apart after exhausting their power in WWII and the USA came in to save them so now they gleefully cheer about how they carried in WWII with intelligence services as if Germany couldn’t have easily invaded the entire nation overnight had Hitler not been an incompetent moron.
Thankfully, after exploiting half the world, they totally didn’t spend the last of their power screwing over every former colony into some long term problem that they could exploit without the need for military power.
Sometimes if feel like only the Germans were forced to acknowledge and learn about their history. When I hear ignorant Belgian fucks talking about how their country never could do something as atrocious as Nazi Germany did I am mostly left speechless. Like… don’t they actually know? (They were like 20-22yrs propably Backpacking riding a Bus… in Dachau)
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If the Germans learn about their history, they evidently forgot to learn it was not a good one
That soccer is boring. I’m european and love playing soccer but it’s boring to watch.
I think that’s just sports in general. I enjoy playing almost all sportsball games. I’d sooner watch a Pong Livestream than watch 99% of sports.
Volleyball is pretty amazing to watch (and play too)
Sitting volleyball is kind of ok.
There’s no soccer in Europe ;)
Only futbol.
That’s pretty much all sports IMO
Can we get a sample of your username?
…a sample? Like, you want to whiff farts orrrr?
No, a little soundbite. What accent is it? French?
Aah, I see. Well, it varies based on what I’ve eaten. I ate maple sausage and scrambled eggs with cheddar cheese and chives for breakfast so I guess it’d be an American fart?
I’m afraid I don’t have one in the chamber though, so no farts to share.
Basketball comes to mind as a pretty good spectator sport. But I agree for Baseball and American Football at least
Soccer is fine. It’s the flopping which makes it unwatchable.
Bro you are a full grown fucking man in the prime of your life and you just spent the last minute rolling around on the turf screaming in agony but now you’re back at 100% for the next attack?
The game really needs a rule which requires any player who goes to the turf for longer than 10s to get a sub or serve a 60s penalty.
OK now this one I agree with
Soccer is at least barely enjoyable.
Not like those cycling races that take 5 hours with nothing happening in them.
I thought America was racist until I saw a member of UK Parliament tweeting about a boat of migrants sinking with “Good riddance”.
I definitely don’t agree with the sentiment and sinking of boats, but they basically are people coming from another first world country for economic reasons. The type of people willing to cheat the system and pay people smugglers tend to overlap closely with bad people. It’s not just simply coming from a place of “racism”. I’m more pissed though that people are putting their kids on these dangerous boats and killing them, or overexaggerating the legality and safety of said boats.
A safe and legal option into the UK is the best solution imo
Nobody wants to leave their country without good reason.
And people who come with little boats are not from first world countries. They have much better options. Including legal ones.
There is still a lot of racism in America. I would not be surprised if I saw that from an American politician.
The sound from my portable bluetooth speaker. But that’s mostly because it’s a shitty speaker and you can barely hear it when it’s sitting 3 feet away let alone when there’s at minimum an ocean between you and it.
Well for one thing, there is that one obvious thing which Americans and everyone else are also unready to hear: You need to give up fossil fuels. No more coal, no more gas, no more petrol, no more diesel. Some parts of Europe like to think they’re well on the way to that goal but even there for the most part you’ve barely begun and are moving too slowly or in the wrong direction (e.g. biofuels). The hard part cannot be put off for much longer.
people being angry at nuclear and wanting to go back to coal are the worst
I’m sad for what’s happening over in Germany
Almost all of the nuclear power stations were already at the end of their lifetime anyway.
And it’s much cheaper and faster to build renewable energy than nuclear, so that’s what we are doing.
If you think nuclear is so great and cheap, look at france, who had to bail out the EDF (company operating all nuclear plants) because it was bankrupt. When the rivers are empty in the summer they have to shut down the plants. And a few years ago they would have had to shut down portions of the country if they hadn’t got electricity from other countries because a lot of their reactors were found to have cracks in their vessels.
Shure, we Germans as a whole are still using too much fossil fuels. But the state I live in (Schleswig-Holstein) already produces more renewable electricity than it consumes each year and I also have a lot of solar on my roof and batteries in my basement.
TLDR: Nuclear is a waste of money when renewables are so much cheaper.
I also forgot to mention the newest nuclear reactor that was built in France.
They needed 17 years to build it, 12 years over their initial estimate.
And the final costs (13.2 billion) were four times as much as was initially estimated.
Just imagine how much renewable power generation could have been built with that amount of money and time.
Sounds like the Hyperloop and high speed trains in California
Nuclear hater are braindead
Why’s that?
Unbelievable
As someone who isn’t a European, most of these comments are yanks being loudly wrong about something and the saying “see the europeans weren’t ready to hear it” when someone points out how stupid the thing they said was.
Specifics?
I will say the Americans not ready to hear post was pretty much everything I complain about all the time. I don’t think these posts are good in any way. It’s just slinging shit for no reason with no productive conversation.
Apparently soccer is offensive even though I grew up in AYSO. i got in the habit of calling them association football and gridiron football, respectively.
I thought the corruption of the leagues and the fanatcism of the US is bad and scary. Then I learned about FIFA. i had no idea.
FIFA is not European, just because its headquarters are there.
The kind of corruption you see there is more typical of South America. And it was a Brazilian who took it from yet another sport to the scale it is now.
For example?
The great cheese shortage of 2026
Ok, I’ll stock up on it.
Not the cheese!
According to movies the aliens always attack the US anyway so I don’t see a problem.
And the quantum flux plague of 2036
Refugee crisises far larger than the ones that have been tearing you apart for the last 15 years
Europe as a whole is swinging too far too the right. Y’all all are descending back into Fascism. The recent popularity of the AfD in Germany being a prime example. My own parents - who immigrated from Germany - are deeply disappointed in the direction the country is taking.
Pot, Kettle, Black. The US Republican party is about as, if not more fascist than the German AfD or Austrias FPÖ.
In comparison, the US Democrats are about where European conservatives can be located on the political spectrum.
This does not imply that the current political direction is not problematic.
I think everyone everywhere knows the world over is sliding to the right.
WE all know this. Sadly the average person doesnt care.
what are you on about?? europe is auth left for sure, look at france and uk. The left is winning even tho people are fed up with open borders policy. You are delusional nutjob at best.
Yes, but the US is already there and has a fascist at the helm so I’m assuming your parents immigrated elsewhere or this is a weird comment.
Smoking kills.
Why wouldn’t Europeans be ready to hear that? Pretty sure we’ve been hearing it on a regular basis since the 70’s
Most of us dislike it. But it’s also true that we have quite a lot of tobacco users. It’s just disgusting
The numbers are a bit worse than I thought https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/smoking-rates-by-country.
As usual, Sweden is doing well. So are a lot of African countries.
Once years ago when I used to smoke, on was visiting Ghana and people were literally yelling at me for smoking in public. It’s illegal to smoke in public in a few African countries at this point IIRC.
Just came back from France it’s out of control there seemingly.
It’s always jarring to go to an otherwise gorgeous and cosmopolitan EU city and see the kind of cigarette litter the US has 30 years ago. Where I live in the US, cops actually write tickets for throwing butts on the ground, and people will yell at you for it. In Lisbon or Paris, there are entire parts of the city which just smell like an ash tray because of all the cigarette litter.
