Europe as a whole is swinging too far too the right. Y’all all are descending back into Fascism. The recent popularity of the AfD in Germany being a prime example. My own parents - who immigrated from Germany - are deeply disappointed in the direction the country is taking.
WE all know this. Sadly the average person doesnt care.
what are you on about?? europe is auth left for sure, look at france and uk. The left is winning even tho people are fed up with open borders policy. You are delusional nutjob at best.
Pot, Kettle, Black. The US Republican party is about as, if not more fascist than the German AfD or Austrias FPÖ.
In comparison, the US Democrats are about where European conservatives can be located on the political spectrum.
This does not imply that the current political direction is not problematic.
I think everyone everywhere knows the world over is sliding to the right.
Yes, but the US is already there and has a fascist at the helm so I’m assuming your parents immigrated elsewhere or this is a weird comment.
European racism is out of control to the point of cringe. The new world cannot hold a candle to you.
Here is a quick example. Netflix released a Norwegian movie called “Christmas as Usual” (translated). It essentially takes the concept of the American 1967 film “Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner”, moves it to Norway and gives it a holiday twist. According to Netflix, this 2023 film was in the Top 10 in thirty countries. How? How is a movie concept from America’s peak civil rights battles era working for you in 2023?
My wife is European and my largest clients are European with European staff and the abundance of casual racism is hard for myself and my staff to handle. Don’t get me started on my family in-law.
EDIT: Europeans were definitely not ready to hear this one. LOL
Hopefully someday we’ll learn to be more like USA police and judicial system.
Wikipedia describes the origin different, so maybe the parallels were not intended:
The film is based on the true story of Holmsen’s sister, a Norwegian, and her relationship with an Indian, whom she brings home for Christmas Eve. The film was released to negative reviews.
Do you not think the problem is divided equally? Some Europeans tend to not notice casual racism, whereas many Americans tend to see racism where it didn’t exist to start with?
I think you are missing the context of the film I used as an example. All the friction and the “comedy” in the film comes from the racism. From the start, it is the point. The taxi driver picks them up from the airport and asks the main character if he is from India. When he replies yes and asks if the driver if he’s ever been there, his reply is no but he stopped in Turkey once. The when they arrive the soon to be mother-in-law assumes that the Indian boyfriend is the Taxi driver and the driver is the boyfriend. We are five minutes into the film at this point and it goes downhill from there.
That is just one easy to digest example using media. Our real life daily interactions with the staff from our European clients is a never ending source for more.
So you’re saying the film points out the casual racism in an effort to shame the people that do it, even accidentally, and using comedy as the vehicle.
Whereas you just got angry and self righteous at said film
That’s what I mean
Your point really doesn’t land. Netflix released a movie? Okay… And?
The film was one of the few of the time to depict an interracial marriage in a positive light, as interracial marriage historically had been illegal in many states of the United States. It was still illegal in 17 states, until June 12, 1967, six months before the film was released, and scenes were filmed just before anti-miscegenation laws were struck down by the Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia.
Makes more sense with this context.
I still don’t get it. Why is a movie’s success with an anti-racist trope an indicator of racism?
Because it should be a non-issue and not an impactful or driving feature of the film.
That feature of the film moved the status quo in 1967. It seemed like that was the point.
If a film were released in America today that pushed interracial marriage as an issue, most would find it racist because it is not a large issue in the greater culture (for the most part).
But I thought the movie only has a similar plot to this 1967 movie, which only featured interracial marriage in a positive light. Does it actually focus on interracial marriage? Because so far nobody has mentioned anything objectable.
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The scary part is that this racism is very alive in German politics right now
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EDIT: Europeans were definitely not ready to hear this one. LOL
Nah, your example is just shit and that the new world cannot hold a candle to us is fucking insane, y’all just re-elected Trump ffs. We definitely have a racism problem in European countries as well but our Trumpian party in Germany is currently polling at 19%, which is awful enough but to claim that it’s that much better in the US is fucking nuts. I’m in a multiracial marriage myself and while my wife experiences racism in Germany, it’s to a somewhat similar extent to the US
What does the movie have to do with anything? Your in-law?
European racism is out of control to the point of cringe.
Oh damn it’s all the way to cringe? Now that’s serious lol
Rapidly approaching can’t even status
Agreed. We have been sold xenophobia by our politicians and media for longer than America has existed.
It’s aluminum. Y’all just changed it to aluminium so it sounded like other elements. Which is even funnier because not all elements end with ium despite that being the main reason for the change.
I have a vague memory of looking this up and the guy that named it intended it to use the american pronounciation but the european spelling, so fuck that guy I guess?
Ahh so it was the guy that came up with a new refining process that fucked us all over.
The general attitude that “British English is correct” and Americans are wrong, is one of the most absurd things I’ve ever experienced. English is inconsistent enough as it is, so don’t claim your inconsistency of spelling and pronunciation is somehow superior. Believe it or not, withing linguistics you don’t make the rules.
Welcome to the magic world of etymology in Europe.
Yeah and it’s pronounced chassis not cHaSsIS!
That capitalisation doesn’t really help, you gotta spell it differently.
Chassee vs chassiss
The question should read
“Americans; give us your baseless opinions of a continent you don’t understand, and then get a rage-on in the comments when you are laughed at”
American here, but yes this should have been the question.
Huh. Just the same as when this was asked of Europeans about the states.
Probably.
Americans don’t have the market cornered on ignorance.
Yknow I used to see the “stereotypical” American now and then, but that was a long time ago. If anybody has a tendency to act like arrogant cunts these days, it’s urban Canadians.
It’s Lemmy - someone will always find a way to turn any topic into shitting on the US.
The state of Western Australia is bigger than all of Europe.
Well your mom is bigger than your disinformation
Factually incorrect.
That’s like saying “no u” Of course it’s incorrect (I think) but now the burden of proof is on you
I guess it depends how you see it.
From my perspective, if someone is going ro make a statement that sounds unlikely, then they should provide proof.
“What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence” Hitchens Razor
However, I take your point.
Obviously it is easily verifiable with a simple Google search
Sorry, I didn’t explain myself well (although you got it). I didn’t mean the burden is on you, more that you were setting yourself up for a “burden of proof is on you” argument
Ah. Ok. I see how you mean it now. 👍🏼
Western Australia is 2,527,013 square kilometers Europe is 10,186,000 square kilometres
I can’t remember the last time I heard of some european police shooting someones spaniel or flashbanging a toddler tbh, not saying they’re flawless, just on a different level.
I imagine every cop being armed to the teeth is probably worse lol.
Blatant violence committed by police is not the only reason cops are bad. They are also the enforcers against journalists, worker action, environmental and climate activism, and so on. Even when those folks are behaving entirely lawfully, cops or prosecutors or other government officials just make up bullshit charges to arrest and intimidate folks.
Richard Medhurst is a notable recent example in the UK.
Well, you’re describing violence inherent to the system. When people talk about cops being bad, they usually mean that cops don’t just uphold the bad law, that’s kind of given, but commit extrajudicial violence
My encounters with the police have been civil and positive. However, I’m not Roma so…
All cops are
I think it’s a response to the common “a few bad apples” excuse.
The assertion being that to be a cop you have to overlook so many bad apples that at best, you’re a bastard for enabling the bad apples.
Perhaps another way to say the same thing, at times in any profession, if you’re unable to improve whatever situation then you’re only recourse is to resign because being involved would compromise you.
Ah. So it’s basically a “guilty by association” type of argument. Despite doing everything in your power to be a good cop, by being employed by the same place that employs a bad cop/bad cops, you’re a bad cop.
I… have mixed feelings. I could have some bias because my brother is to study at the university to become a cop. He’s a humble, standup guy. Again, possible bias, and it’s anecdotal, but I didn’t think ACAB before learning he was to study to become a cop, either.
It just doesn’t make sense to me that everyone that looks to become a cop is that type of power hungry snake/murderer that you sometimes see in videos. Some people just want to serve and protect their community. Some just want the excitement of booking bad guys. Some have their own unique reason for becoming a cop. And some seek an outlet to exert power over innocent people. But not everyone, I just can’t believe that.
I guess it boils down to a definition of “bad” in the end? To me, it feels unjust to treat all cops the same just because they are all cops. Bad apples should be treated as bad apples, and good ones as good apples. In the end, the good apples are fighting a good fight IMO, and people in all lines of work sometimes have to work alongside people doing less good than them, or just straight up evil.
No, it’s not a “guilty by association” type argument.
I don’t necessarily subscribe to the ACAB argument. It seems that way in the US, but I don’t have any direct experience with that. In Australia I’ve never encountered a bastard cop, nor even heard of an experience like that, aside from a few instances I’ve heard of in the media.
I think it comes down to the prevalence of misconduct.
In some police services there may indeed be just one or two officers who are bastards and in that case you’re obviously not a bastard just because you work in the same service provided you’re not actively covering up their behavior.
In other services where there’s a culture of violence and cronyism et cetera, it would become impossible to serve the community without at least passively condoning the misbehavior of others. This is the situation where one could like at the entire service and say, that all of them are bastards even if they’re not directly perpetrating violence.
ACAB isn’t just about police brutality though. Isn’t Australia’s surveillance situation pretty bad? I include that sorta stuff.
Also, assuming you aren’t yourself Aboriginal, those folks seem to feel (based on a quick web search) suppressed from speaking out about the violence and harassment they experience from Australian cops.
Australia’s freedom score is better than the US.
There are a myriad of social issues faced by First Australians (Aboriginals) including police brutality. Any summation I would try to give would be reductive given the complex history and various mitigation strategies that have occurred.
However, as I pointed out earlier it’s the prevalence of misbehavior amongst officers that determines whether it’s possible to be a police officer without passively condoning that sort of behavior.
Perhaps the behavior of Australian Police warrants the ACAB label in your view, it doesn’t in mine.
I’ll bite. Do you want an actual answer, or do you just want the opportunity to publicly clutch your pearls?
I believe that all cops are bad.
It doesn’t mean I think every cop is personally bad in their private life. It means that it doesn’t matter how good or bad a cop is as a private individual. As soon as they put on that uniform they become the enforcers of unjust laws, and the enforcers of persecution against minorities, journalists, workers taking collective action, environmental and climate activists, human rights activists…the list goes on.
All cops are bad because the very nature of being a cop overrides any personal merit the cop may otherwise have.
This video by Thought Slime explains quite well what is usually meant by ACAB, and explains what the alternatives are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk5xnEL8mYg
Very interesting, thank you for this input. This is the kind of insight I was looking for. I guess I was focused on this part:
It doesn’t mean I think every cop is personally bad in their
privateprofessional life.But as you say, merely participating in the system makes them bad. Not individually, but as a concept.
In that case, I think it’s important not to blame the cops, but the system. Because we all know there are many of them who are not trying to uphold the unjust laws, but the just laws. Sometimes in life you have to take the good with the bad, and surely that is what many officers are doing.
All those individuals are trying to do is make a positive impact on their community, and protect its members.
So in this type of reasoning, I think we’re putting the focus on the wrong thing, the cops. Whereas we should be putting the focus on regulators, law makers, etc.
France, Germany, and Austria all have a military-industrial complex problem. MIL money might not dominate their politics the same way as the US, but there is a problem there.
Even with their post-WW2 defensive militaries, Germany and Austria are perfectly ready to sell military hardware to anyone with the cash. H&K, Glock, and Steyr all hail from those two.
France sold off the Exocet anti-ship missile to just about anyone. As far as I can tell, it has only been fired in anger at the boats of other NATO members. Thanks, France!
Not even close to what the US does. Far from it. The US military budget is larger than most other countries overall budget.
Nice whataboutism you got there
Tons of tu quoque replies in the whole thread, which tends to prove OP’s title. Yes, we’re aware America does these things turbocharged. The whole point is that EU nations do all sorts of shit, too, but it isn’t scrutinized because America does it worse.
And yet, giving arms to Ukraine is somehow a struggle.
The American South equals the European East
but… we already know this
But Portugal is on the other side.
Europeans like to pretend they’re innocent, but they are the benefactors of most the damaging empires to have ever existed. They colonized nearly the entire world, extracting value from other cultures while destroying them. They pulled out once it was financially wise, keeping the wealth they extracted and leaving behind the destruction they created. They then blame everyone else for their issues while bragging about how awesome the EU is while overlooking that the EU is only possible due to the wealth they stole from everyone else. Europe likes to discuss that they had their social hardship discussing WWII, but the origin and impact of WWII there was internal to Europe. Had Europe been subject to colonization from elsewhere, it would be just as much a mess as other places. Look at the situation in former Soviet Pact countries that were practically colonized by Russia for maybe half a century. Now imagine if instead of half a century, it was hundreds of years and 5 times as brutal.
Fun fact: The term “colony” comes from Christopher Colombus’ name, which is Spanish is Cristobal Colon. Even the term colonization derives from a European.Apparently, that was incorrect.tl;dr: Europe got to where it is by destroying the rest of the world while blaming the rest of the world for their issues. Their critique of USA is merely a distraction from their own responsibility.
We don’t believe in generational sin, forced upon you because your grandparents did something bad either.
Lol the downvote brigade is here +11/-7 and on my other comment too, if I’m so wrong tell me why!
I will believe this when the British museum, the Louvre, etc are devoid of stolen (or very unfairly “purchased”) artifacts from former colonies. Generational responsibility may not be a thing, but institutional abuses spanning centuries that persist into the current day absolutely are.
Fair enough, but it’s quite far away from enslaving and murdering.
Edit: I see the difference between stealing versus raping, enslaving and murder. Not saying stealing is right, but there is more than a nuance to it lol.
Countries built their generational wealth on the backs of slaves though. Look at how, for instance, Belgium enriched itself though the horrific abuses in the Congo. While it’s true that no one alive was directly responsible, they still benefit from it.
It’s the trophies from the enslavement and murder. They didn’t get to keep the people, but they did keep souvenirs.
like serial killer trophies. They just cant help themselves.
At least serial killers acknowledge how they got those trophies instead of pretending they stole priceless cultural artifacts and vandalized them to match their own aesthetics to “preserve and protect them” because the original owners would have just “squandered” those artifacts. (Looking at you, British Museum and your theft and desecration of the Elgin marbles.)
Ignoring the past doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, or that it has no bearing on the present. “Somebody else did it so the generational inequity is fine actually” is a terrible argument.
Agreed, but the sad sick thing is that as time goes on, the crime really does go away-- or any hope of it being remedied does. Justice delayed really is justice denied.
Which is not what I said. At all.
Putting words in other peoples mouth is not as good as you think it is.
Your reply was a nonsequitur as well
In whzt way is it a non sequitur ?
It’s not my job to educate you
Also, if you’re going to correct my misspellings, don’t misspell “what”
I don’t think Columbus was the origin of the word “colony”
It came from Latin so the claim is still right, but for the wrong reasons
I guess Finland isn’t European by your description then 🤷🏻♂️
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The word colony comes from the Latin word colonia. I guess you could say the Romans were “European colonizers” but their socioeconomic systems were fundamentally different from modern Europe.
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Had my Spanish brother in law over for the holidays. He says spanish schools teach that the spaniards were trying to civilize the natives and bring them a better life. And sure, some things went wrong, but that columbus should be seen as a hero. He strongly beleives it. I was floored. I thought that stuff was pretty settled. I showed him some info on the genocide of Hispanola, and he said he’d never seen that before, but that we cant judge what happened back then by todays standrads, and that the word genocide hadnt even been invented back then, and that method of conflict was normal back then.
There was a recent call in Barcelona to take down the Columbus statue, at least as early as 2016 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/27/call-to-topple-christopher-columbus-statue-from-its-barcelona-perch)
I live in Barcelona, and Colombus and colonization is definitely not a popular topic: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/12/spain-leftist-columbus-day-celebrations
On the other hand, Spain can still be quite racist, football players being a good example (https://www.ft.com/content/6801c79a-6325-4a2a-9d5d-1d99b37920ab, https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240610-fans-get-8-months-jail-for-racism-targeting-real-madrid-s-vinicius)
The rest of your comment is great, but it would have taken a five-second check on https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/colony to make sure you got your etymology right (which you didn’t)
Yeah I think they’re aware of colonisation
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NGL, it sounds like your describing Americans, sorry!
Which country did you live in?
Ah an aussie. Have clean hands do you? No racism there?
A stolen generation and a whole lot more I’m sad to say
The French love to riot and protest the govt. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_France.
The British frequently review and criticise it’s past actions https://www.jstor.org/stable/2637720
Of course, we also acknowledge the Norman and Roman invasions of Britain, but it happened so long ago we don’t expect the Italians or French to apologise about it now…
My apologies, I didn’t know about this. https://hir.harvard.edu/true-sovereignty-the-cfa-franc-and-french-influence-in-west-and-central-africa/
The Macron-Ouattara announcement represents a needed reform. But it is just one of many that needs to happen. Going forward, the challenge will be to keep the benefits of the CFA franc monetary zone, namely a stable currency and low inflation, while transitioning to a new institutional system away from France. A monetary system that holds a former colonial power as the guarantor, regardless of announcements or agreements, will always ultimately fail to eradicate neocolonialism.
Are you talking about Overseas France? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_France
Overseas regions have exactly the same status as France’s mainland regions.
Seems similar to Puerto Rico, Samoa and the others https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States
Saying that with a straight face while a outright fascist is coming into power and every us billionaire is stepping in line to kiss their ring while the working class is doing nothing of importance. USians must be the most submissive culture in the world while actually thinking it’s the most revolutionary.
Germans? Germans talk about the Nazi crimes every other year in history class. They’ll read at least two books in lit handling the Nazis and the fallout. They have holocaust memorials big and small in every city. German government is up Israel’s ass because they’re jews. Every video game that could even have a slight chance of glorifying Nazis is banned. When Coca Cola wanted to bring back Fanta like it was made “in the good old days” they conjured a huge shit storm, had to pull everything and issue an apology. Nazis are still being prosecuted and sentenced today. Every so often a new big book or movie is released to big media fanfare that deals with Nazi history.
Maybe you’re talking about other colonisation efforts and genocides. They are also actively being acknowledged by government and media alike. They do get lost in this little war that completely shaped the whole world for the next 100 and probably more years.
Nazis are still being prosecuted and sentenced today.
American are a lot more willing to criticize our ruling regime and half of us talk about how us is doing crimes actively… We know where out daddies obtained their capital.
This describes all of us. Remember class solidarity !
Really though?
You mean the French who criticize their government all day long for the past hundred years?
They’re still arrogant as fuck and most of the world can’t stand Europeans.
lol and what utopia do you hail from? bet it’s full of assholes and bastards too
I think that’s the point. Every country/culture/society has its own problems and it is quite grating when individuals from various countries act like their country’s problems aren’t as bad as everyone else’s or that their excuses are valid but no one else’s is.
Sounds like America
I’m not European, but do go off
I thought America was racist until I saw a member of UK Parliament tweeting about a boat of migrants sinking with “Good riddance”.
I definitely don’t agree with the sentiment and sinking of boats, but they basically are people coming from another first world country for economic reasons. The type of people willing to cheat the system and pay people smugglers tend to overlap closely with bad people. It’s not just simply coming from a place of “racism”. I’m more pissed though that people are putting their kids on these dangerous boats and killing them, or overexaggerating the legality and safety of said boats.
A safe and legal option into the UK is the best solution imo
Nobody wants to leave their country without good reason.
And people who come with little boats are not from first world countries. They have much better options. Including legal ones.
There is still a lot of racism in America. I would not be surprised if I saw that from an American politician.
buy and large Europeans are much more racist than Americans. in america it is not at all uncommon to have a ton of different races (I’m from a small town in Texas and we had a lot of Mexicans, black people, and a couple different Asian races (yes there are different ones)). that’s not to say every European is racist and it’s not to say that none of us are, but European countries tend to be much more homogeneous than the us and as a result tend to be more racist.
Just to counterpoint: you do know why, exactly, it is that the south has more black people than the north, right? (Hint: it’s not because they were so much more accepting)
my point was more about variety than quantity but yes, I am aware. I also said nothing about the north because I was talking about Europe vs America. though many people refuse to accept it, the vast majority of people in the south are not racist. like anywhere we do have some people who are but they hold no power or respect.
French food is wildly overrated, as is Paris.
If there’s anything Europeans know to be true, it’s that Paris is a giant tourist trap. Not worth it imo.
I love Paris with all my heart. And can absolutely agree, it’s a giant tourist trap.
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What the french DID for food historically cannot be understated, but times change.
Europe is a continent, not a state. While the European Union exists, its members are very different.
You think… EU members are unaware that other member states are different from them???
Yes, exactly. The Irish do not know they are different from Romanians. Thanks for asking!
Yeah and the French think they’re Estonian. Your original comment was… off target
Like the US! :)
I’ve not met anyone in the EU that believes this and I live in the EU.
We are all aware that each country is different, many of us have been in other EU countries.
European car manufacturers largely suck ass, I’d rather buy a Hyundai or a damn Nissan than some French or German piece of crap.
I’d buy a European car before a Hyundai/Kia.
Europeans use cars from all car manufacturers. Hardly seen are Chinese brands.
Soooo, yah know.
Wish I could update my 10yo vw golf (which has served me very well) for something not electric. I know, I know, but I’m renting a flat, with a parking space, and only way to charge an electric would be on the street overnight, which is very inconvenient as well as damaging
Edit: but what I meant is you don’t know what you’re talking about
Great, go do the brakes with standard tools, oh wait, you have to use a special “triple square” tool instead of having a standard hex bolt like every other car. And on and on with the bullshit.
It takes me places though. I’m not a mechanic 🤷♂️
It still increases the cost of ownership and issues with reliability.
I am guessing you are from America. I am aware of the figures in terms of reliability, and Japanese manufacturers do a clean sweep in that area, and have done for decades. If that is your only metric, then you may be correct. German cars require religiously regular servicing, and will go wrong if this doesn’t happen fastidiously.
The US market get given a different range from many manufacturers. The VW range is objectively quite toned down in style and build quality. I presume because they would piss all over the domestic market if they didn’t.
Get into a hyundai or a Nissan in Europe and the difference in build quality, materials, aesthetic design and textures are worlds apart.
I have had a range of cars over the 30 years I have been driving, and this is my experience in the UK.
When you are forced to buy a car just to maintain a job or not be run over on your way to get groceries on the transportation “infrastructure” provided by American cities, reliability for a car does make the top of the list.
I did not see it that way. When you say it like that I guess that would change my perspective a little too.
German cars are highly regarded around the world.
Now Italian cars…
That’s not true anymore, at least among people who own ten year old German cars and those who work on them. The good german car thing evaporated around 2000, reputation is catching up finally.
I work for German car manufactorer, so my opinion might be biased, but I hate this job so it might balance things.
My experience is that German cars sucks now, but every single other car sucks more.The truth these days is that damn near every car has reasons why you shouldnt buy it.
The Germans are still fraudulently trading on their rep from the 80s, the French are always being different just for the fucking hell of it wether the customer likes it or not, the Italians love needing bespoke tools for simple jobs, everything British is now chinese or german, the Americans would be burned at the stake for suggesting the next model be smaller, Japans “reliability” rep is mostly being upheld by Toyota and Honda who charge accordingly, China is coming along in leaps and bounds but still cant figure out “supply chain logistics” for spare parts and Korea just keeps dropping the fucking ball over dumb simple shit.
People ask me all the time “What do you think about CAR” and Ive honestly resorted to “If you like it, buy it. Ive known people with reliable Fiats and unreliable Toyotas. The only unhappy people are the ones who bought a car they didnt WANT.”
Magneti Mirelli 😬
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