Perhaps they would feel more inclined to vote if we had more then two viable political parties to choose from.
With a more representative electoral system, people would be free to vote outside the two party system with no spoiler effect. Their vote would count, even if their preference didn’t win.
Who could possibly be against democracy? Republicans? Of course.
How about the democratic party? What is their opinion of democracy? Will they work to ensure their constituents are represented fully? Every day that ticks by without electoral reform in blue states is another day the democrats elevate their party above the needs of the country.
Videos on alternative voting systems
First Past The Post voting (What most states use currently)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
Alternative vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
Ranked Choice voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2fRPRkWvY
Range Voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig
Single Transferable Vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI
STAR voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mOeUXAkV0
Mixed Member Proportional representation
There was a choice. You failed to choose the better option, and thus must accept the worst.
Simple-as.
I’ve been taught people vote on their opinions, opinions form based on how the politicians resonate with them, and that in turn happens due to how good or bad they are.
Last year yielded only the most questionable choices for the presidency in the US. Is it any wonder some people didn’t vote? Any politician that judges non-voters only hints at the kind of aura that may have caused them to lose in the first place.
If I don’t vote, I’ll get judged. If I vote third party, I’ll get judged. If I vote for the person we’re taught to hate, I’ll get judged. What does everyone want? Non-democracy?
- They don’t get to complain because they refused to do the bare minimum.
- Contribute to the many reasons I had to leave my home country. Not sure it would be different otherwise, but going immigrant without a fallback plan wasn’t pleasant.
- Mandatory voting - I’m for it as long as it’s Australian style - no severe punishment, just light fines. Enough to quietly annoy people into voting.
They don’t get to complain because they refused to do the bare minimum.
So you only vote in order to complain?
It’s a factor. I’m aware my political opinions are in the minority and unlikely to be implemented. Being able to demonstrate that I tried to do something gives legitimacy to my criticism.
Being able to demonstrate that I tried to do something
Participating in a glorified spectacle that simply exists to rubberstamp elite rule qualifies as “doing something” to you?
How is it better if someone just goes and circles a random name on the list because its mandatory? If someone doesn’t follow politics and isn’t educated enough to pick a good candidate, or motivated enough to research them, I think it’s better to not vote at all than to give it up to either chance or a superficial gut feeling based on constant propaganda barrage. A person that votes like that just makes your vote less impactful, statistically speaking.
How is it better if someone just goes and circles a random name on the list because its mandatory?
Statistically, if a large population being “forced” to vote were voting names randomly on ballots that had their own order randomly assigned, then their votes would be evenly distributed and not end up affecting the results.
Because they won’t do it randomly. Being forced to participate will make people think: “If I have to do it I might as well choose X”. If you ever participated in a mandatory school activity you might know the feeling. You might not have chosen to do it of your own free will, but now that you’re there let’s think what to make of it.
Also politics is not just voting. Politics is almost every choice you make every day. If I have to drag someone kicking and screaming until they understand it so be it.
Also also, voting randomly is not useless. Keeping the political system functional is preferable to forever pining for a perfect candidate. A “perfect glorious leader” doesn’t exist, random votes make those emotionally swayed by charismatic leaders less likely to gain a majority.
That’s a lot of assumptions that I can’t agree are inherently true. Forcing people to participate might not make them think at all beyond fulfilling the duty and not paying a fine, and random votes might not balance out the charismatic leaders at all - if anything the charismatic populist leaders that focus on good PR over substance will probably gather up more of these uneducated “just circle something” voters than the others. It is where/why marketing and commercials work so well in the first place and I’d rather not give even more power to this type of brainwashing, it is a popularity contest enough as it is.
If anything, I’d make it so in order for people’s votes to count they need to show at least a very basic understanding of what they are voting for and what are the implications of it.
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Which one is which that’s the big question
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As an Australian I do have a bit of a problem with mandatory voting. Mostly because it forces the uninformed to go vote too, so we get the same breed of fearmongering and sensationalist headlines on the newspaper front pages that are all owned by the same billionaires and the same idiots on social security voting for the party that would abolish social security because Facebook told them the other party wanted to let muslims rape their girlfriend.
But the voting on the weekend and the democracy sausage we definitely got right.
I don’t care, not like our elections actually mean anything, we get Putin anyway.
You mean, as already happens in Australia and Belgium and maybe a few other places.
Seems fair to me. Democracy relies on participation. To not vote is effectively to vote against democracy. Fair enough, but that’s a dangerous road to go down. I think there should be a small price to pay for it.
Democracy relies on participation
You don’t exist in a democratic society. So what exactly do you want people to participate in?
No, the onus is first on you first to explain why “we don’t exist in a democratic society” and above all what is your brilliant plan for making things better. If all you can do is whine about why it’s all useless while you undermine the system by opting out of it, then frankly I’m not interested in anything you have to say.
No, the onus is first on you first to explain why “we don’t exist in a democratic society”
Did you vote FOR the ongoing genocide the liberal status quo is funding in Palestine as we speak, genius? Were you ever given the chance, hmm?
Yes or no?
If no, where is your “public power?” Where is the democratic power you should have if you actually existed in a democratic society?
To a non-brainwashed person, this would be perfectly obvious. But it’s not obvious to YOU.
above all what is your brilliant plan for making things better.
Now you are demanding solutions to a problem you insist do not exist. A bit incoherent, don’t you think?
while you undermine the system by opting out of it
ROFLMAO!
Good job demonstrating that you don’t have the foggiest understanding of the system you are defending.
Your argument for not bothering to get off your ass and vote in a US election is “Palestine”? America deserves what it gets.
So I guess it truly is YOUR genocide then, eh?
Colour me surprised.
This is the dumb way to go about incentivizing people to vote.
Make voting part of doing your taxes. Everyone is already verified through the IRS, piggyback off that system. Whatever amount you had in your head as a fine, make it a tax credit if they compete the voting portion of the tax paperwork.
People who don’t do taxes can vote by mail still and can still receive the money for voting. No more stupid fucking voting booths.
They should shut up about politics. Not voting is literally a declaration that you don’t care who governs you. Voting is what gives you the right to complain about the government. If you didn’t vote, shut up.
They should shut up about politics
Not participating in fake, anti-democratic spectacles (somehow) “disqualifies” one from talking about politics?
Elections might be skewed, they might be giving voters a rather narrow choice, they might depend on who’s got the bigger campaign fund, they might not offer ranked choice, yet with all that --they’re still one of the most accessible, actionable things the average person can do to control their nation’s future. Passing on that is not justifiable, because we should be doing everything we can, and that includes voting. I used to be cynical like you, but
then I took an arrI mean, we can’t afford that.Elections might be skewed,
If you want to see this glorified rubberstamping of elite rule through those kind of rose-tinted spectacles, fine.
But don’t call it “democracy.”
I used to be cynical like you
If you think seeing through propaganda is “cynicism,” boy, do I have bad news for YOU.
Depends on your nomenclature, I’ve heard US and France’s political systems referred to as “flawed democracies”. I personally didn’t call either a democracy, I think we’re past that quite frankly.
If you think seeing through propaganda is “cynicism,” boy, do I have bad news for YOU.
I call cynicism “giving in to desperation instead of acting”. I’ve explained why imho not voting was the least reasonable choice, so far you have failed to reason back. Do you think you can do that ?
I’ve heard US and France’s political systems referred to as “flawed democracies”.
Painting a lighter shade of lipstick on a pig doesn’t make the pig less of a pig.
I personally didn’t call either a democracy,
No, you didn’t. And that is legit refreshing.
I’ve explained why imho not voting was the least reasonable choice
I never said that not voting was reasonable. My point is that it’s perfectly UNDERSTANDABLE.
There is a difference.
This is just ignorance and whiny entitlement. Your “fake anti-democratic spectacle” is the hard-won achievement of generations of people who came before you. Boring liberal representative democracy is the exception in world history. Most people in the world have never had the opportunity that you have to influence your government. Not good enough for you? Well then get off your ass and do something to make it better. The very least you can do is vote, because out of two candidates, one is always better than another. If you can’t be bothered to do even that, then I for one don’t care what you have to say about politics.
is the hard-won achievement of generations of people who came before you.
Really? The generations of people who resisted and fought against THIS EXACT STATUS QUO would be proud of these glorified rubberstamping spectacles which only exist to legitimize elite rule?
Really?
Boring liberal representative democracy is the exception in world history.
Really? So the ongoing genocide your “boring liberal representative democracy” is funding is… an exception? The history books says otherwise.
Most people in the world have never had the opportunity that you have to influence your government.
Lol! Do I sound like a billionaire parasite to you?
then I for one don’t care what you have to say about politics.
What’s the matter, liberal? Is all the cognitive dissonance starting to make you feel queesy?
Do I sound like a billionaire parasite to you?
No, you sound like an ignorant decadent American college student.
an ignorant decadent American college student.
Those Yankee college students staging protests on US campuses are far better at “doing” democracy than all the voting you could do over a lifetime put together.
Perhaps it’s best that you don’t try to flex about something you don’t seem to know too much about, okay?
Lazy idiots, misguided idiots, deluded idiots who have made every progressive goal more difficult to achieve, just out of reach for the rest of our lives
I don’t care. Popular vote doesn’t get presidents elected, and nobody local ever seems both interested and capable of making significant positive changes, at least that I’ve seen. It largely feels like theater, and in a race you can’t influence between two people pledging to continue genocide I can see why people would throw their hands up and say fuck everything.
They’re definitely part of the reason why we are where we are. Not the only reason, but definitely a big part of it.
Additionally, I’ll say that their refusal to vote isn’t the protest they think it is. All it did was tell the powers that be that they trust everyone else to choose for them and that they’re fine with whoever wins.
I don’t personally care if someone voted or not, especially this election.
The majority of non-voters I’ve met irl are conservatives, so I’m happy they didn’t vote
They don’t care who leads them and are happy to go along with whatever circumstances or rules are presented to them.
Any problems with those circumstances or rules are their fault.
Good for them. The less people who vote, the easier it is to claim correctly that the supposed rulers are illegitimate.
People who don’t vote don’t get to complain if things don’t go their way. I mean they can, but it’s pretty silly. It’s like writing a review for a restaurant that your friends have eaten at, but that you haven’t. No one should take that review seriously.
I think voting should be mandatory for people who have registered to vote. I don’t think anyone should be required to register, but if you are registered you should have to vote or be fined, imo.
Make them take the “Walk of Shame” like in the GoT.
No fines. Just make it even easier and better process. Mail in ballots and a federal holiday for the Presidential election.
