I’ve had several conversations/arguments recently with my brother making clear my system of values and my hatred for the wealthy. He is nearly diametrically opposed on all accounts and often makes light of their actions. He goes so far as to say that poor people and people in need of social services should have to figure things out for themselves. He often defends Elon Musk and champions him for being self made.
He is getting married in a foreign country soon and I have been able to put aside our differences and have been planning on going
…up until yesterday that is. I asked him of his thoughts on Musk’s seig heil maneuver and he sent a right wing meme of democratic leaders caught mid wave, saying that “they did it first”. He continued to be avoidant and didn’t respond to me calling it a strawman.
In this moment it feels necessary to cancel my plans to send a message that this is not ok. Am I the (or an) asshole for not going to his wedding because of this?
This thread made me delete lemmy - bye
This family clearly has issues, most do.
The 20 posts suggesting to ditch your family to punish them instead of talking and expressing how it bothers you is where you lost me.
I guess this is how you create echo chambers. I disagree with the majority of the opinions here, and unlike family I have no motivation to keep listening to this.
Enjoy!
Realise that you’re choosing to listen to Nazis rather than not interact with them, or not to listen to them.
Sure, someone is family. But as someone for whom family is important – even I would have my borders. If that family member were to constantly make horrid remarks – would you then really want to spend that energy having a dinner with them? The OP already has tried to talk several times and express how it bothers them. But the Nazi ignores that and doesn’t change their behaviour.
Then it’s clear: for your mental health, it’s better not to talk with them anymore. Some people, however extreme, are reconcillable. But those where you reach out multiple times, and they don’t wish to listen - there it’s a waste of time.
Nazis are way more of an echo chamber than normal people are, and the only answer to that is to close the door behind, with a note: “will talk with you only, once you change your behaviour”.
OP has tried to reach out multiple times to address their concerns, but all reactions from the family member boil down to not wanting to listen to these concerns. Is the OP then creating an echo chamber, or is the Nazi creating that for himself? Take your time to reflect on what your decision entails.
LOL. Elon is self made? Where did he get that from?
Did he conveniently forget mommy and daddy are rich from their emerald mine?
Self made means you don’t come from wealth and don’t have a support system to make you even more rich.
Your brother is a moron.
Nah, don’t go if you don’t want to. Family are just randomly assinged people you share the same genes with. If you don’t like them you don’t have to force yourself to like them in order to appease random strangers online.
If he truly is your family and loves you, like all the “nonono he family you cant do this to FAMILY” posters are saying, he will understand and not hate you. If he does, fuck him.
No offence but this is advice of a traumatized child. This is not how families should be and if this is yours, you need genuine therapy, definetly not giving others advice on family. Op do not listen to this
No offense, but this is advice from someone that’s not related to a rabbid wolverine with a toothache and a chemical imbalance. Some relatives are fucking nightmares, and no amount of tolerance is gonna change that. Walking away is sometimes the best for your mental health. Can confirm. My psycho sister disowning the whole family was the greatest gift she ever gave us.
OP, unless you’re in therapy and Shezzgrad is your licensed professional help, then ignore their advice.
You’re kinda making it clear your projecting your own family issues onto op as my original comment to you. I have a psycho sister too, thing is, there’s a difference between differences in thought and being a literal fucking psycho, psycho is sending is shattering the family at the drop of the hat because you feel slighted, thinking Elon is the coolest dude ever (he isn’t) isn’t the same level, things aren’t black and white.
OP, unless you’re in therapy and Shezzgrad is your licensed professional help, then ignore their advice.
When I said it originally I was being a dick, but I think you may want to genuinely consider therapy, family traumas can be everlasting and can really kick in later on in adulthood, your sister experience sounds similar to mine
So it’s not your professional opinion then, Dr.
When I said it originally I was being a dick, but I think you may want to genuinely consider therapy
I, too, was being a dick because you give advice like you’re intimately aware of the situation, when I’m guessing you are not. I’ve done therapy. Didn’t change the fact that I’m related to a person that would shove her kids into traffic if the mood suited. My ultimate point being that just because someone is a relative DOES NOT mean you need to keep them in your life.
And beyond saying i have a psycho sister, what gives you the impression that our experiences are similar? I didn’t give a single detail. Unless we compare notes, that’s just you basing an opinion on your experiences. Projecting, if you will.
Okay dude, whatever you say. You can take your anger out on me, but you’re proving you clearly were projecting your own issues and you need therapy. I hope you work through your issues dude, but your experience aren’t the same as op over here. You’re sister sounds truly awful and I hope you know it isn’t your fault
You’re right in that this is not how families should be. They should be people you care about and trust.
Your family does get a pass for being family; you maybe don’t share the same interests or lifestyle that would otherwise form a distance in childhood friends that eventually fizzles out, but with families this shouldn’t be the case.
But then sometimes your family members end up (or you discover) they are bad people. Yet even then you may stand with them as they sell drugs or rob people or even have killed people; they’re still family and what they’ve done can be understandable even if wrong.
Then there are Nazis and Nazi sympathizers, apologists, and supporters.
Families should stick together, but people also shouldn’t be Nazis. So here we are.
Well said, in my personal opinion we should stick close to family but there are lines, and each person’s lines are different, but I feel generally that line should be for their actions and not their ideas or thoughts. Being a trump supporter Vs a Jan 6 rioter or a proud boy are different levels to me. We should try to change our families mind to an extent, if they can’t or won’t change or if you’re not a great debater. Honestly unless your family hurts others, I can keep it together.
As with all things, this can be solved by some healthy passive-aggressions:
I’d go, drink heavily, find a random corner of vaguely like minded individuals and strike up a hearty politics convo with them. Don’t mention your brothers views, or even assume everyone you’re talking with agrees with you.
When your brother and his bride come around to ask how everyone is doing, smile blankly and nod politlely, and wait for him to leave.
Then resume the conversation.
No, it sounds like your brother is actually the asshole.
Depends on how strongly you value your relationship with your brother. He may be a fuckwaffle, but he is your fuckwaffle. It’s big of you setting your differences aside. If you don’t go, and he means a lot to you outside of his political views, then you might regret not going. If you don’t really care for him and political ideology is more important then dont go. I think not going is kind of crossing the Rubicon, but I don’t know the situation part from your details
I think you’re the most correct person here.
OP, it’s your life and relationships. Of course people on the internet will tell you to pull the trigger on the nuclear option, because they don’t experience any of the fallout of you making a hardline decision.
I’m not saying go to the wedding. I’m just saying consider how it might affect your relationship with him and the rest of your immediate family and decide if that’s going to be a better situation overall, before acting.
Very level headed answer. We like to stand on principle here, but if OP doesn’t go that’s pretty much the end of their relationship, we’re talking decades to repair. If that’s what OP wants that’s what OP wants, but in this case it might be better to take the high ground and say “I think your political views are horrendous, but you’re still my brother”. Get a few drinks then duck out after the speeches.
I agree. Don’t think about it like going to the wedding or not. Decide if you want to cut ties with your brother and possibly other parts of your family. Maybe also people that don’t share his political opinions but still side with him in terms of the wedding. Chances are high that not going will permanently damage your relationship to your brother and possibly other family members that side with him. If you value your ideals higher than your family, that’s perfectly okay. But from perspective you aren’t forced to do that.
Supporting Nazis is a perfectly fine reason to cut someone out of your life for good. In fact, you’d be an asshole if you did go.
As much as political differences matter, you will not change his mind by not going - but your relationships will get much, much more bitter, and it will be hard to rectify. Many people went through this mistake, and it costed them a lot.
Honor his wedding while keeping to your values. This event has nothing to do with them.
Seems overly dramatic. I don’t think you’re an asshole, but somebody who should realize you don’t deradicalize your family by being emotionally unstable.
The emotionally unstable one is the Nazi :3
Wanting to have people die/suffer for being Jewish, Palestinian, queer, or whatever, that IS emotional instability. Normal people don’t want others to die. :3
NTA. A fascist is no longer family. You don’t even need the context for this, the red line is so brightly painted there that you’d have to be dead not to notice it.
I have recently nuked relationships over different values. It hurt but I know in my heart it was the right thing to do. I dont want to be the type of person that has a person like that in my life and covers for them.
Consider if this person is worth sacrificing your personal values and morals for.
I think a lot of people would cut contact with their family at times like this due to the ways in which these kinds of beliefs often intersect with massive amounts of interpersonal abuse and broadly dysfunctional and unhappy relationships. I think this is most especially true of people who are queer, neurodivergent, disabled, or a member of some other minority, who are easily going to be subject by that abuse from their family more and more, especially as they may be more dependent on them and as they’re more noticeably going to see that abuse well up as a result of those narratives. You know, people who get to see the “ugly sides” of their family.
I would say that if you’re not actively dependent on your family, and you’re not part of an actively hated minority which they will more easily discard, disrespect, and abuse, then that makes it easier to cut them out of your life, but that’s also definitely a time at which you will counterintuitively be in the best position to sway them, since you’re at your most secure.
So I would say that this is, in some part, a decision which you should probably make in reflection of your current material circumstances, the current state of your life. This also isn’t a decision which you need to make right now, really, to cut him out of your life or decide to blow this particular one up. You said he’s already married, and that your other two brothers aren’t going, so one more probably won’t hurt things that much even if you invent an excuse.
I’m like 90% sure if I showed my dad the picture of elon musk hitting the five knuckle shuffle live on stage in 4k 60fps three times in a row, he’d probably flee to the “my heart goes out to you” comment, right before trying to find some sort of talking point he could throw down the hopper in order to justify this shit, which is really to say nothing of the fact that he basically just fundamentally agrees with elon’s actions on basically every level if he was to actually sit down and think about it for long enough. There’s some people which cannot be helped, because they will repeatedly choose not to be. There isn’t exactly a correct answer, here, I think the major thing is that if it goes sideways because of your decisions, you shouldn’t beat yourself up or crash out over it, or become overly callous.
You are a drama queen and would probably make a scene at his wedding anyway. Don’t go.
Yeah, OP needs to grow some balls and toughen the fuck up over differing opinions especially to your siblings weddings. You’re letting politics and hypotheticals destory your relationship. I’m not saying you have to agree with him, but you should be able to be mature enough to leave politics, religion when around family.
You have the absolute right to skip his wedding, no one can stop you. But like others have mentioned, it would be effectively cutting ties with him permanently. Maybe that’s exactly what you want, maybe you’ll be better off without him, maybe this is the catalyst for you to cut your losses with him and move on, or maybe not. We don’t know the nuances of your relationship with him, so I don’t think anyone on this anonymous forum can make a good faith decision for you, you will have to make it for yourself.
Yes. Blood thicker than water. I have family that I dislike I will still attend weddings and funerals and I will still be there for them.
