If you asked me like 4-8 years ago, I felt kind of neutral about things. Now I don’t feel an ounce bit patriotic or proud enough to even state that I’m an American.
Now, when I see an American flag around, I see it as a symbol of fascism, anti-intelluctialism, neo-nazism, and late-stage capitalism amongst other things. If there’s an American flag flying on a car, I can totally see that person possessing at least one of those qualities.
I suppose it’s good to be self aware and not blindly feel patriotic and ignoring that your country needs improvement.
I don’t know what I’m expecting in the comments here but just thought I would get this off my chest.
No, you’re right to feel that way. While most Americans aren’t terrible people, enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
No, you’re right to feel that way.
Agree.
While most Americans aren’t terrible people,
Hard disagree.
enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
Well…yeah. That’s a symptom of the problem which is why I had to hard disagree with you.
In elementary school, I was all about patriotism. The flag was cool. we (country) were the bad-ass owners of our own fate and we’re cool. We are the melting pot, by the people for the people.
Up through Desert Shield, I was still like yay, America.
W lost his luster, I got old enough to feel the embarrassment of broccoli and NUCULER. I wasn’t rah rah anymore, but those that are, live and let live right?
Dixie flag wavers were racists, that was easy, but the 1776 flag, will maybe they’re historians.
I was mostly over our the right’s shit by Clinton. But then Clinton had some of his own disturbing shit.
When Trump hit the first time, I saw, 30-40% of the population throwing flags up and starting fascist fights. Complete and Immediate disillusion.
At his point, someone flying the US flag is a BIG red flag. The Dixie flag is stupid racists, The 1776 flag is libertarians who fall into camps between uninformed and uninformed racists pop it up there with the don’t tread on me bullshit.
At this point, if you’re not retired military from a better time, there’s very little you can do to show me you can fly an American flag and not be a horrible person.
Another valid reason to fly one is self defense. If you are bold enough to exist on rural american roads while riding a bicycle, having an american flag visibly attached to your bike can do a lot to disarm the types of people who would otherwise run you off the road.
The country where I was born and raised is 900 years old. This implies a lit of history, both good and bad.
The country was literally started because our first king decided he wasn’t going to allow his mother and her lover to steal his father’s lands. After that, the Pope demanded our country to pay the church a huge sum in order to be recognized, the king said “we’ll eventually come to that” and never payed. We were taken over by our neighbouring country at some point because of blood ties and after 75 years we just said “enough is enough, these guys are getting housted”. We fought Napoleon. We had a bloody civil war. Somewhere inbetween all of this we decided “Let’s build a lot of boats and see where we can go.” because the price of spices was to damn high. And more recently we got out of bed for a morning, threw down a fascist dictatorship, and went back to our quiet life. Nobody cares or notices us but yet we have one of the most powerful passports in the world.
But why all of this boasting?
It’s cool to have all this history and background. But I don’t owe my country nothing. I owe who I am to my family and friends and I owe to the future generations to remember where we come from and teach them the same I learned by myself: we are our country. We decide what we stand for and we represent the values we want to spread.
The government of your land may be corrupt today but it does not have or needs to represent you. And by refusing that, you put up your own resistance. No matter how small, that is resistance. And if you feel your flag needs to be reclaimed, put it upside down.
Stay strong, OP.
deleted by creator
Thanks for this! <3
The greatest lie the Right ever told that the Left bought hook line and sinker was that they were the ones who represented America.
The thing is, while the US has it’s horrible history and present, the people who fought for the ideals we’re supposed to have are also just as much American as any conservative asshole. MLK Jr was American. Frederick Douglass was American. John Brown was American. Mister Rogers was American. Abolitionists. Suffragists. Union fighters. People fighting for fixing the problems, righting the wrongs, holding our country accountable for it’s own ideals, are just as much a part of that flag.
The assholes laid claim to that flag and the people who are aware of the problems, who have legitimate concerns with the bullshit this country has done and continues to do, accidentally let them.
I agree with this with every piece of my heart. I’d like more than anything for American non-maga’s to take back the American flag (and the gadsden for that matter). Let them have their maga and thin blue line, but ceding the American flag to them is essentially admitting that you don’t want to be a part of this country, which only makes maga’s feel more comfortable about labeling you as an “other”. I know, I grew up in a conservative family, and still live in a conservative state. It’s a self-exacerbating problem.
I can sympathize with those that really are done with the country, but I’m not ready to give up yet. We can flip the script. Pride marches should be flooded with American flags. Civil rights too. Force conservatives to come to terms with the fact that they’re no more American than the trans-commie over there waving the big-ass American flag. If we’re so lucky to make it through this and come out the other side a better country, I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to changing the flag. But right now I believe it makes strategic sense to claim the 50-stars. Fly your other flags with it if you don’t want to be confused for a conservative, then you’re essentially projecting “hey, I’m American too, dumbass!”.
TL;DR: the American left needs stop being so self-concious about what waving an American flag says about them and realize that a.) non-maga’s waving the American flag can be a powerful propaganda tool, and b.) they can take it back.
🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 NAZI AMERICANS FUCK OFF 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 SHOOT ALL NAZIS ON SIGHT! USA! USA! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
deleted by creator
So then the question is, what should the flag represent, the people or the ideals? If it’s the ideals, then some real shitheads are trying to steal your flag.
deleted by creator
Thanks for the laugh. It’s basically all I can do at this point is laugh about how shitty it is.
Came here to post this. Thank you for your service.
“To this extent? Yes.”
Where I live it’s hard to see someone flying an American flag and not immediately assume they’re a bigot.
Magats did to the American flag what they think gay people did to the rainbow.
yeah its like the flag itself. its design. its very nice and meaningful. The folks who go all boner on it makes it like eww. jeesh memorial is just around the corner. mini flags laying around as refuse along with flag plates and napkins. Doing things like that to the flag used to be considered disrespectful. Its like omg this guy burned the flag to symbolize our government no doing things in the way intended by the founders but lol mustard stains on old glory, fuck yeah!
You are not wrong. Seeing jingoism and corporatized patriotism for the sham that they are really opens your eyes to how much of it truly exists. A person who wants no politics in life is often fine with a national anthem, a gigantic flag stretched across a stadium, with jets flying over for a Cheez-It Citrus Bowl and has absolutely no idea that it is political propaganda for nationalism and perpetual war.
In my 50+years here, it has only gotten worse and worse. We’ve always stuck our military where it doesn’t belong, back to the beginning with genociding indigenous peoples here. Now we stick military bases all over the planet and strong arm every other nation into unbalanced alliance. We create conflict for oil and to line the pockets of defense contractors. We aid those currently committing genocide and protect the perpetrators from receiving international justice. Nationalism and fascism snap together like two magnets.
Every time I am told to stand for a national anthem at a professional for-profit sporting event, I think of these things and remain sitting.
Do you think it’s possible to live in harmony with the rest of the world? If the united states conceded its powerful position, who would take over as the new world power? (Probably China) Would you be better off? Would the world in general be better off with someone else in charge? Would you prefer to stand for the Chinese flag or the American flag? Or do you actually think we are ready for a world where there are no super powers?
That’s a lot of questions, many of which I don’t know. All I know is that it is possible for the US to close all the bases and live in harmony with other countries around the globe. It is, however, improbable due to immense wealth among industrial sectors in the United States who hold the actual cards. Their greed will inevitably lead to full scale war as they wither and cede power.
My point is that the united states is a stabilizing force, and in many cases someone else would step in if we left. So my question is, would they be more fair? Its not as simple as saying that the united states is the sole source of evil in the world.
It’s a good step to consider patriotic ideology as prelude to fascism and tribalism. Welcome in the world of great oportunities, free from borders and labels put with force in your mind. Welcome there, human!
As a German, I feel you.
<3
youre not alone. the american flag makes me sick. overt patriotism has been coopted by magats, and its hard to see it any other way.
if someone feels the need to wave the american flag, i feel the need to be suspicious of your lack of empathy and possible fascist undertones. sorry.
Yeah but if I see an Australian or New Zealander fly their flag I’m like “they’re probably chill”. If I see someone waving a bit american flag I would think they were going to shoot me and call me the n word
Here’s an alternative take to upset the boring consensus here.
Patriotic pride (not necessarily nationalism) is the inevitable product of social cohesion. A society which is cohesive is one where people look at strangers and see them as members of their tribe - essentially, as extended family. It’s a society where citizens are therefore willing to pay high taxes to fund those strangers’ welfare benefits, for example. No welfare state has ever arisen in a country without this essential quality. Almost by definition, social cohesion is closely correlated with patriotism. In the world’s most redistributive countries - I’m talking about Scandinavia, of course - you will see more national flags than you might think given their “leftist” reputation. In Sweden, ordinary houses sometime have flagpoles in the garden, I’ve seen them. None of this is coincidental.
Patriotism can be a dangerous slippery slope, yes. But it’s also what empowers strong states and collective action. Nobody wants a patriotism-free world more than the billionaires that everyone hates here. Be careful what you wish for.
You tell me, man. Over here in Brazil, seeing a national flag outside the context of “it’s world cup match day” generally signals whoever is flying it is a fascist twat.
Dang, that’s interesting. Thank you for the context. (-an embarrassed american)
Fun little anecdote – One of my neighbours is one such twat. They used to fly a Brazilian flag from their window.
Then Jan 8 2023 came and went, and the “patriots” failed to manifest a CIA-backed military coup in our country by camping outside army boot camps (because the CIA right now has other problems and doesn’t care to fund right wing dictatorships in Latin America, and our military does not like to work and will never move their asses, for or against any cause, without a fat paycheck telling them to) – And they became disillusioned.
So they replaced the Brazilian flag, with the flag of SE Palmeiras, a soccer team. Which is hilarious because Palmeiras has history with the original fascists, like the Italian, Mussolini-before-he-was-hung ones.
Not from the US but when I see my country’s flag I don’t really feel anything. In theory I’ve got two flags, both the Scottish one and the Union Jack but they both elicit the same lack of reaction. Countries are just social and geographical facts. Getting angry or elated at the sight of a flag is a bit like having an emotional reaction to the moon; I suppose it’s possible in some circumstances but most of the time it’s just there and you shrug.
Ok but the cool thing about the white saltire on blue background is you get your flag in the sky whenever two planes leave a trail at the right angle.
Don’t forget who took that from you.
No, you’ve started to see things more clearly.
