From Spain here, when we want to speak about USA people we use the term “yankee” or “gringo” rather than “american” cause our americans arent from USA, that terms are correct or mean other things?
Just say “idiots.” Source: USA citizen.
You can say USAmerican or US (as an adjective, e.g. US government) as a neutral demonym. “Yankee” and “gringo” have pejorative connotations, although I’m not Latin American so I don’t know what the connotations are among LatAm Spanish speakers. Also, my understanding of the word “gringo” as someone who lives in neither of the Americas is that it refers to specifically white people, not USAmericans in general. I’m not sure if I’ve understood the usage of the term correctly, but if other people have the same understanding, they may get confused if you call eg a Black USAmerican a gringo.
Being a native, a Yankee to me is a New Englander. My Spanish friend had to gently explain to me, “shut up, you’re all yanquis.”
Being a native from The South, “Yankee” to me means anybody from the area above the Mason Dixon line. Full disclosure, I’m not proud to be from The South. However, I do find many Yankees to be at least a little bit strange. So, the designation stands in my head.
Given that you’re the native, you should gently explain to the colonial that they are the ones who are wrong.
Marvelstani
That sounds like the name of a person from Docklands in Melbourne.
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imo, ‘gringo’ has no special meaning unless it was given one from a local group. like how “let’s go brandon” only makes sense on a specific group.
‘yankee’ used to have a specific one before, i.e. north-eastern US bros, but it got saturated and now could be used generally. imo, ‘yankee’ usage has ye olde vibe to it, but maybe that’s just me.
EDIT: corrected ‘southern’, thanks to Denvil
thanks! missed that one.
Not too sure about gringo but I know yankee is correct, I hear that one a lot from folks I know in the UK.
There’s some weird linguistic drift where in the southern US, we call northerners yankees, even though in the rest of the world we’re all yankees. Now I’m curious how that started.
I dunno how true it is, but I’ve heard it gets even more specific once you’re in the north. I shared a map in another comment detailing the different meanings of it.
As for the etymology, apparently it goes back to Dutch settlers of New Netherlands, and may be connected to the name Janneke. It seems to have gone from being used by English settlers to Dutch settlers to being used in precisely the reverse at some point, and has at times meant either someone of English descent, of early Protestant descent, or other things.
It was used more generally by outsiders to refer to Americans as far back as the Revolutionary War (the song Yankee Doodle Dandy was originally making fun of Americans—macaroni being a sophisticated style of dress), so its history being used in that way actually predates the Civil War associations that I think many Americans would give it today.
So yeah, it really does have a fascinating linguistic history.
Also, weird…this is the second time in as many days I’ve had cause to look up Yankee Doodle Dandy.
As a Dutchie, I’ve heard it being an contraction of the names Jan and Kees, both are common names in Dutch
That Southern US usage dates back to at least the US civil war in the 1860s.
But yankee was used to refer to at least some people in what is now the US as early as the 1660s.
Burros como o caralho is Portuguese for USAians.
It translates to something like dumb as fuck.
Dumbfuckistan has a certain ring to it when you put it that way.
Yankistani.
Asians to the east. Usians to the west.
Do you not have a term in Spanish?
If y’all use yank, yankee, or gringo, they’re all fine.
But, American is fine too. If you’re using English, everyone will know what you mean. It isn’t like it hasn’t been the term used in English for at least a century.
Here the thing. If you’re referring to someone from one of the two/three americas, you specify north, central and south. That depends a little on whether you consider all three as discrete areas, or not, but that’s the norm in English.
If you want to refer to all people from the americas at once, Americans is also fine. Context will carry which way you’re using it. English is fairly easy to make contextual indicators like that.
An example: “oh, Americans love their flag”. Which americans are we talking about? The ones with a specific American flag. Which, the statement isn’t universally true, it’s just an example.
If you aren’t using English, it doesn’t matter at all, use whatever terminology is the norm in that language.
The reason it doesn’t matter is that there really isn’t an “American” people in the continental sense. The cultures of the continents don’t even have a unifying effect, though you do have some connection between Spanish speaking vs Portuguese, vs native, vs English, etc. The language links in South America are much more significant than the fact that they live on the same continent.
Any time you’d be referring to the entire Americas, or the peoples of them, you’d specify that because there’s not a single American continent.
One nation out of all of them being america really isn’t a difficulty in conversation. It’s a non issue.
Most americans, the majority of whom don’t live in the US, dislike the usurpation of that term. There’s a longer history starting in the late 1800s of US politicians using “america”, “greater america”, to coincide with its imperial ambitions in Latin america and the carribean.
The USA even had a time when it had more people in its colonies living outside its contiguous borders, than it did inside.
There’s a lot on this in the book, how to hide an empire.
Most americans, the majority of whom don’t live in the US
Gonna stop you right there. The number of Americans who don’t live in in the US is tiny.
“American” is the demonym for someone from the United States of America. You don’t have to like it, but that’s the way it’s been in the English language for hundreds of years, and getting angry about it doesn’t change linguistics, which is defined by usage.
English speakers don’t recognise the Americas as a single continent, but as two separate continents separated by the isthmus of Panama. So it doesn’t make sense to have a single demonym to refer to everyone from those two continents.
The arrogance of some Spanish speakers of thinking they have the right to dictate the English language is astounding. And I refuse to buy into it. I’m not coming into Spanish-speaking spaces and trying to change how they talk about things in their language.
Hi, Brazilian here.
I’m sorry, but “the number of Americans who don’t live in the US is tiny”?? WTF?
Hi, South ~~AMERICAN!!! here.
the US doesn’t get to shove their so-called “democracy” up our asses, impose their monetary exchange, be proud of their stupid ass imperialism, force people to learn their dumb as fuck language and then go “yeah, it’s OUR language, you can’t dictate how we call ourselves”
Sorry, dude, but you kinda lost the privilege to “dictate” your own language when you decided to think about the whole third world as your backyard and to name yourselves after THE WHOLE FUCKING CONTINENT.
peace, bye!
That has very little to do with the topic, which is colloquial language as it exists now, compared and contrasted between English and Spanish in specific.
And, tbh here, if you wanna talk populations, brazil is half the population of South America. And that total is still only 100million higher than the US. Since we’re talking about mainly Spanish and English here, you can decide if you want brazil included or not, but even that’s still not some kind of crazy difference.
Since Canada and Mexico are the other parts of North America, and don’t generally give a flying fuck about the terminology, are we going to include them in the count too? Like, the Mexicans I know use their own Spanish terms for Americans, sometimes even when speaking English.
Like, dude, I get it, you wanna link everything into colonialism and imperialism, which is fine. But let’s not pretend that Americans hasn’t been the term used in English across the world for damn near as long as the US has existed. It was what, 1788? 1789? That one of the French diplomats used it in writing the first time? Might have been before that, but that’s the one I remember. The term was certainly in use before that.
Now, using “Americans” to refer to everyone over here did exist before the U.S., going back to at least the 1500s. I think that was only in use in English, I’ve never looked up what was used in French and Spanish back then. But since the USA came into being as country, it has been the default term for US citizens colloquially.
Even some of the other languages use variations of it. There’s Mexicans and Nicaraguans at least that use Americanos rather than other terms. I swear the Guatemalans near here default to that as well, when they aren’t using gringo or race specific terminology, but I don’t have as much interaction with them.
All of which goes back to the point that the whining about it online is a fairly recent thing, and it was definitely not a thing back far as the nineties irl for the general population. That may be biased by my exposure to Latinos being almost exclusively people that live here, rather than visitors.
If people wanna try to shift language into something else, all it takes is coming up with a replacement term that’s not unwieldy or stupid sounding (like usians), then getting people to use it.
But nobody has come up with a realistic english replacement. Usians isn’t going to happen. You might run into it online because it’s easier to type, but you won’t see it used in speech because it sounds stupid. It would be like calling brits ukians.
Hell, go find something in another language, English is great at adopting words. Beikoku-jin (japanese) or Usanano (Esperanto) are cool as hell, flow off the tongue, and beikoku would definitely get the weebs on board. Give it a go, see what happens.
Now, using “Americans” to refer to everyone over here did exist before the U.S., going back to at least the 1500s. I think that was only in use in English, I’ve never looked up what was used in French and Spanish back then. But since the USA came into being as country, it has been the default term for US citizens colloquially.
Confidently wrong. US leaders didn’t start referring to its citizens as americans or its country as america until ~1900.
I know you won’t read the book I linked, and are going off of white-supremacist vibes, so here’s an article for everyone else about the history of this imperialist usage.
IDGAF about what leaders called it/us. That’s almost irrelevant.
But other people in the world absolutely were using the term American to refer to citizens of the US before the 1900s.
I’m also not sure why you insist on staying on this tangent when the conversation was about current usage.
Getting you to read is impossible. Stop white-supremacist vibing and actually read about its historical usage. I even linked you an article, which I know you didn’t read.
It’s so frustrating to read books about the long history of these things and then have confidently wrong children try to correct you with a vibes-based analysis.
Dude, stop with the ad hominem bullshit.
other people in the world absolutely were using the term American to refer to citizens of the US before the 1900s.
I mean, a few, I imagine. There’s always been people saying shit wrong. Would help your case if you actually had a source and not just a vibe to refute an evidence based position.
By population, however, most of the world isn’t the anglosphere. Spanish speakers, which is most of America, by and large call you “Estadunidenses” whenever it’s not “gringo”. A good chunk of us also speak English and object to gringos colonizing “america” much like Indonesians or Indians or Malaysians probably would have if Japan decided it was “Asia”.
You might not have decided that we speak English, but the same government that made it a necessity for us in the global south to learn the language is the one that decided to steal that term. Language matters.
Oh, I have sources. I’m just not rounding them up for this shit. After the assholery I’ve already dealt with, I’m done. I didn’t give much of a fuck about dessalines’ tangent to begin with, but was willing to engage a little with it just because of who it was.
Sounds like that fight was lost 100 years ago.
Not really. Most americans aren’t native english speakers, and still consider themselves americans. They don’t roll over and let the US coopt that term.
I’m USAian. (just identifying for this thread, i don’t call myself that)
would “gringo” include Black USAians? Asian USAians? Spain-born USAians?
from my understanding of “gringo”, that doesn’t seem to include non-white USAians. Most English monolingual USAians think that means “white guy”.
a lot of gen z USAians might not know the word Yankee as a term for USAians. if speaking to them, you might have to explain it’s not the baseball team.
maybe it’s better to stick with “USAians”. it’s never been used but it’s easy to figure out. other possible choices are:
- Statesians
- USAliens
- USAmericans
- Staters
- Stater Tots (re: tater tots)
- USticles
better yet, call each of us by the state we’re each from. that’s the safest bet. you know all our 50 state names right? and their official demonyms? 🤣 kidding
it was difficult writing it too…
Its my understanding that in Spanish, “American” refers to anyone from the Americas. In some languages/countries, the Americas are taught as 1 continent (Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, Antarctica, and America), so a person from any country in the Americas would be called “American”.
In most English speaking countries, we are taught that there are 7 continents, and north and south America are separate continents. In that context, you wouldn’t really use a term to refer to people from both continents. It’s similar to how, as a spaniard, I could not call you “eurasian”, i would just say “european”. In English, you would then have to refer to people as either “north american” or “south american”.
In practice, we do refer to people from south America as “south american”, but north america usually gets divided into “central american” and “caribbean”, which only leaves the US, Canada, and Mexico.
People from Mexico and Canada have obvious demonyms, while the USA does not. “Gringo” also applies to Canadians (and it’s specifically referring to non-spanish speaking european americans), so it doesn’t really work as a demonym. “Yankee” doesn’t really work, either, because it only applies to a subset of people from the US, so it’s similar to calling everyone from Great Britain “English”.
I haven’t met any primarily English speaking residents of the americas with any problem with people from the US being called “american”.
We say “USA” for the country and “US-American” for the people. Those arrogantly misusing the name of the continent can get rekt.
