Dear server admins, please defederate threads.net. Dear users, ask your server admin to defederate threads.net.
Meta just announced that they are trying to integrate Threads with ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, etc.). We need to defederate them if we want to avoid them pushing their crap into fediverse.
If you’re a server admin, please defederate Meta’s domain “threads.net”
If you don’t run your own server, please ask your server admin to defederate “threads.net”.
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Yeah not wanting to associate with cancerbook is elitism
Look at the history of XMPP, to give you a precursor of what to expect. There’s no naivety here. Those who don’t history are doomed to repeat it.
Oh for fuck sake, can you to stop with the “what about XMPP” bullshit please?
The fucking protocol still exists. And none of you bandwagoning twats use it. But you constantly talk about it like it was stolen from you. In reality you don’t know what it is and use it as a strawman for your arguments.
Right now, download any number of XMPP clients and start using the protocol.
You don’t because you are part of the “big is bad” elitism trope. Just a bunch of pathetic wannabe underground elitist.
Thanks for making wild assumptions about what I use.
And also, incorrect usage of the strawman fallacy.
I hope you have a nice day :)
Totally agree. It’s unfortunate because a lot of people in the fediverse have social and reasoning skills similar to those on 4chan.
They just don’t get it because they live in a bubble with other people who don’t get it.
4chan in the early days was just trolls wanting to piss people off. Apart from the occasional post that was truely fucked up, which the community generally made sure the authorities found out who made it.
The current landscape is a bunch of people all wanting to circle jerk themselves to feel virtuous.
The world is just a fucking pathetic eco-chamber now. And I’m a flirty whore for engaging in it.
It only relates to Threads, exactly becaise they are an enemy of freedom.
Just as you can’t afford to tolerate intolerance, you shouldn’t give freedom to thos who want to strip it away from you.
There’s nothing of elitism in that.
“An enemy of freedom”. 🙄
I mean can you be more cliche?
Or maybe, out of the 3 Billion active users on Facebook each month, you, and many others, are focused on fucked up shit. Because, shock and horror, everyone is gripped by the propaganda of the group. Welcome to being part of a biological social species.
Just for a moment consider the following. Facebook priorities posts that get engagement, they don’t care about morality and fairness and they won’t stop untill it is illegal to do so.
I don’t absolve them of their responsibility, but you attributed malicious intent when stupidity and profit is only needed.
I never implied there’s an evil master plan behind it.
I implied that when greed prevails, any other consideration, freedom included, get bulldozed. And at that point you can safely assume they are enemy of freedom - they don’t have to promote authoritarianism, it’s enough for them to benefit from a system that strips us from our freedoms, and happily keep operating.
No, you literally said that Facebook is evil, because you said, with grammatically corrections “Facebook is against freedom”. And don’t try to argue that this is a difference or semantic.
Facebook doesn’t give a shit about your ideology, it only wants likes because that improves its influence. Be that capitalism’s influence or socialists influence.
Nope, I said Facebook is an enemy of freedom. And that doesn’t mean their primary goal is to strip it away, it means the way they operate goes against freedom and they don’t mind it.
If tomorrow aliens will militarily invade in search for resources, and will entirely disregard any human pain and suffering along the way as they destroy everything and everyone, will they stop being enemies of humanity simply due to the fact they’re not here for genocide per se?
Elitism: the advocacy or existence of an elite as a dominating element in a system or society.
What you just described is exactly how elitism works. I understand the hate for Facebook and all of Meta’s products. However, this is exactly how gate keeping starts. I don’t want to see the fediverse go anywhere more than the next person but it becomes contradicting and hypocritical to the entire establishment of the fediverse if Lemmy or other federated apps begin to decide who can and can’t be federated. That is the whole image right? To prevent gate keeping and to establish that not one person owns any one portion of Lemmy, Mastodon, etc. However, what happens when an entity on Lemmy does start deciding to defederate a Conglomerate starts making decisions just like Facebook? The does Lemmy not start fitting the bill of not being able to tolerate the intolerance as well? To me that becomes elitism the very thing Lemmy users swear is a perfect system.
I don’t believe Meta is good for anyone or anything but Lemmy users need to understand that you can’t say, “we are different.” And then justifying the very contradiction of being exactly the same by just saying, “Facebook takes freedom.” I don’t like Facebook infact fuck them but either Lemmy users admit they need to play the game like Facebook and that someone controls who is a part of content and who isn’t or they don’t. Just stop trying to find ways that this would be “different” just fucking say, “we want to control the content that is on the platform and who can be a part of it.” Because now you are playing the Meta game on their own terf. Just tired of Lemmy users thinking they are special.
This is not means for control seizure; in fact, barely any Lemmy admins can afford to exercise their powers against users, as everyone can effortlessly move to another instance.
This is a matter of protection, and you can’t fight Meta without it.
It’s like doing nothing with wolves attacking sheep, because “if you attack wolves, you won’t be that different from them”. No, you would be. We should do it and we have users’ support - and the best admins can do is open a vote, which was conducted on many instances (and had pretty much one outcome: defederate).
I find it bizarre you think the mere possibility of users from a big corporate service being able to communicate with the fediverse is akin to wolves attacking sheep.
If you really need your echo chamber to be free of people who use Meta servers, you could just block them as a user without mandating everyone else do so too.
There’s nothing wrong with the people.
There is a lot wrong with Meta.
Single-user effort will only get you so far; blocking Threads individually will break user experience (as most interactions, not just posts, will originate from Threads), and embracing Threads will inevitably lead to downturn in Fedi-native communities, further drying what just began to grow.
I can block content from Threads, but I cannot block the influence Threads exert on fedi. This is why servers need to defederate - to protect and preserve the community from any influence Zuck can singlehandedly exert.
At the same time, I welcome all Threads users to register on Mastodon and become Fedi natives. This would be the best outcome possible.
If you don’t give a shit abount Facebook enabling genocide, amplifying white supremacism or, you know, selling milluons of users’ private data to the Kremlin, then sure, why not.
This isn’t about elitism, this is about a known bad actor threatening to harvest our conversations without our fucking permission, or using Microsoft’s tactic of “embrace and extend” to destroy the competition.
Anyone can implement ActivityPub. We have no problem with that. Facebook is a corporation whose business strategy has consistently been about harvesting users’ data and selling it to political advertisers.
Why are you only concerned about Facebook doing what you describe?
It’s weird that this is downvoted. Is Facebook the only villain in this world or something?
Ah. Whataboutism … but lacking the courage to even name the other whatabouts. Top-notch disputation that!
Gibberish
Yes it is, but it’s not your fault. You can only manage to type a single word at a time before forming a full sentence even.
It’s certainly better than just alluding to them with stuff that would embarrass a vaguebooking teen.
You don’t seem to understand the issue. Facebook IS the bad actor. They’ll allow racists, nazis and all kinds of assholes just as long as they get their sweet advertising money.
Instance admins moderate according to community rules. Zuck moderates according to what’s most profitable.
To put it another way, imagine reddit started federating with Lemmy, and suddenly all the users from TheDonald started harassing our political forums. If that sounds bad, remember how many fake accounts ran by shills and foreign states (read: Russia) appeated on Facebook between 2014 and 2017.
Even if you defederate they can harvest the data… I mean it’s an open protocol.
threatening to harvest our conversations without our fucking permission,
Public posts on social media are well public. There’s literally nothing that stops them from reading your posts without federation, and federation does very little to change that in a meaningful way.
or using Microsoft’s tactic of “embrace and extend” to destroy the competition
By what, adding features to Threads that make users prefer it over other ActivityPub implementations? The worst case here is that Meta federates, then does something that breaks federation and their users don’t jump ship to another instance but stick with the Meta product?
Anyone can implement ActivityPub. We have no problem with that.
So long as they aren’t a giant corp you personally see as especially evil, then if they implement ActivityPub they need to be blocked as globally as possible?
Yes allowing corps into the Fediverse is very short-sighted.
I’m snarky because I’m annoyed at seeing the constant FUD being lauded around here. Sorry if that snark comes off as hostile.
Yes, Meta is a shit corp who doesn’t deserve any free pass. However, ActivityPub wasn’t built with exclusion in mind. Nor does the protocol allow Meta access to anything that you aren’t already giving up freely to thousands upon thousands of other servers (many of whom cannot or will not respect your rights to data privacy) whenever you use any Fediverse platform.
People who are scared of Meta joining the Fediverse simply do not understand how the Fediverse works, or misunderstand the design philosophy of ActivityPub.
ActivityPub wasn’t built with exclusion in mind
Yes it was, that’s what defederation is for. The potential for exclusion is literally built into the design philosophy of federated networks. Every instance has the freedom to not host Meta’s crap. I don’t know why people don’t understand this.
You’ve also made the point that the information is still accessible, so it’s not like we’re taking down their instance. We’re just turning it into a pariah to devalue it, and if enough instances do this, I guess that means the action is popular. If it wasn’t, it wouldn’t succeed. There’s very little to debate here, it just sounds like you don’t like people using their power to do something you disagree with. Sorry, that’s up to those people. It’s not for you to dictate what other people do with federation.
what happens to existing culture on fediverse
Likely nothing. If Threads users are problematic and Meta refuses to moderate them appropriately, then instances can defederate later.
Doing it preemptively or forming a pact is just absurd, though. It’s treating the users of Threads as a threat, instead of Meta (who can and will still be able to harvest anything they want from the Fediverse, because that’s how ActivityPub works), and that’s not fair to them who didn’t ask to be thrown into our community in the first place.
Clearly you haven’t dealt with a Mastodon instance having a major defederation event.
For most users, regardless of the validity of the defed, the user experience is terrible. Their social graph just suddenly, stops working, the people they follow can no longer see their posts, all because of the actions of a few bad actors or administration failures.
This paired with the fact that maybe only Firefish or Misskey lets you (mostly) seamlessly migrate to a new instance with your data intact, and the lack of a standard way to see what followers you will actually keep when you migrate, means that the defederation experience is sucks, and migrating to a different instance to escape that is a pain in the ass.
Meta has already shown it has piss poor moderation in the best of times, and actively boosts incendiary content in the worst of times, all while collecting, profiling, and exploiting your data. It’s literally inevitable that they’re going to break the rules of all but the free-est of free speech Instances, so for the privacy, safety, and headaches of everyone in the fediverse, we might as well save ourselves the trouble.**
Most people on Threads aren’t pro-corporate, they don’t actually give a shit about that. They’re just too confused by the decentralized model to be on Mastodon, couldn’t get an invite to Bluesky, and wanted somewhere to be other than Twitter.
Being connected to it all via Threads could eventually help them get enough understanding to migrate to a different instance.
ActivityPub wasn’t built with exclusion in mind.
So what? People can run kbin or Lemmy as a standalone forum not connected to anything, if they want. People are free to use the software however they see fit. Wouldn’t exactly be the first time people choose to use software in some other way then the authors intended.
While I’m cool with blocking threads.net, “we should block all corps from the Fediverse” doesn’t make sense and that’s a bad cause to focus on
It’s fine if an instance wants to make that their policy, the fediverse gives an instance the freedom to do so, but it would provide little gain for a lot of annoyance
Other bad reasons:
- “Meta can spy on us”: they can do that even without threads.net, and federating makes little difference there
We certainly should keep corps at a 1km pole from here.
They come and ruin everything they tough in the name of profit. Can they force their way? Partially, maybe, in some ways. But if we welcome them with open doors, it will get way worse. The last thing we should do is give up and say “they’ll get their dirty hands into this anyway”.
Let’s keep this place tidy of bullshit, pretty please.
We can take precautions against their nonsense by enforcing the standards, and we can educate people about why it’s a problem. That becomes difficult if we just close off entirely. We can’t have an impact on things we close off to and ignore
I don’t think we should give up or welcome them with open doors, I just think there’s more nuance to it than “defederate from any fediverse thing tied to a for profit entity”
Facebook’s case is special because of their nasty history with control and abuse, so if people want to be extra aggressive with them then I’m good with it
Well, first off - protect yourself, and then manage the rest. I welcome the noble goal of enforcement and policies and education, but it will always be like cathing a slinky.
We should be very vigilant with their presence here, and in this case, we should certainly close off.
Do you understand what corporations do?
You are free to make your own Mastodon/Lemmy instance and federate with them. Being able to block instances is user choice which absolutely IS the point of ActivityPub. There is no one entity that says you must federate or must defederate.
If Kbin defederates from Threads, I’ll just leave Kbin, and stay with Threads. Defederating over vibes is not how the fediverse is supposed to operate. And for everyone advocating for this dumb idea, I’m just using this thread as a honey pot.
They can get the data, but they need the federation so people see their content/advertisement.
And whenever an account from Threads upvote/ downvote or reply to your comments/posts or vice versa, Meta will analyze that and they can sell ads based on your political leanings, gender, geo-location, hobbies, marital status etc.
That’s the options from what I saw from fb ads dashboard years ago. If you’re from US, that options are broader and more detailed.
Bye then!
Here have a glass of boot juice for the voyage.
Big tech is a cancer on the internet. It makes sense to avoid it.
Please let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
No, the entire point is that you’re free to go to whatever instance you want and/or host your own with your own rules. You’re more than welcome to go to one that doesn’t defederate, just as every instance owner/admins are free to defederate. It’s not how “the fediverse is supposed to operate” because a standard for how the fediverse is supposed to operate doesn’t exist.
If you don’t subscribe to threads you’ll never see it.
Because threads doesn’t have communities. All threads people can do it comment.
They can post to communities by mentioning their handle, mastodon users do it all the time. They’re certainly not going to be as much of a problem for us since it’s a deliberate process, but it’s also not that far fetched that users will sign up there to abuse it, especially if threads has poor moderation (it’s not looking good as it is).
Great and such, but the large majority that might come to the Fediverse will never look nor use that function. If we don’t defederate with our instances now, we never will.
The thing you don’t get is that more common people will find the lemmy servers for the first time. Additionally it is more of a Twitter clone and doesn’t threaten much.
What do you mean by “find Lemmy servers?” I mean, can you describe how that will look like from the perspective of someone that is using threads? And how that will motivate more common people to change the platform or browsing behavior?
Lemmy.world is a server running lemmy software. It’s federated so you can subscribe to lw communities of Mastodon and comment as well. Threads and Mastodon don’t support communities though so all they can do is subscribe and comment. There is no negative to lemmy servers of Threads being federated. Threads users will subscribe to lemmy communities, but stay on Threads. If you’re on a lemmy server it doesn’t change anything. You’ll just see posts and comments with accounts ending with @threads
From my understanding of your earlier comment you said casual Threads users will find out about Lemmy servers for the first time and I asked about how that will work out from the perspective of a threads user. I hoped for an answer of that.
Exact same experience as a Mastodon user.
*everyone doesn’t
Undoubtedly.
That’s the face you make when the hamster in your ass sneezes.
That is beyond offensive. As a butthole hamster shover upper, I refuse to be brought down to Zuck’s level, there aint no way possible we ( hamster asshole stuffers) should be dragged through the mud and besmirch our good name. Let the robot lizard people keep him. Harumph…
I’m against the defederation. The internet and the www are based on the idea of connection.
That is naive look on it. Meta(Facebook) is a company, it’s always company interest and only company interest. The idea of fediverse is to stay out of data tracking, user profiling, not to help it in any way. Connecting with meta is workoing aginst fediverse. It might be a mistake fediverse never recovers from, even now it’s really small fedi community.
Why would we as fedi users, mods and admins help meta or any other company, for what, for their interest that they sell on “we love fediverse”, “cusotmer first” bla bla bla.
Imaging for a moment all non-company-mail-servers would block all company-mail-servers (like gmail). Would that be a good idea?
This isn’t email. Email wasn’t built purposefully able to block entire instances of email. Terrible comparison
Your argument is inherently flawed and born of confident ignorance. You can do better.
Yes, that would be a great idea because it would free the email protocol taken over by all big tech.
The more I think about it, you’re right. Having email in the hands of a few for-profit tech giants has really damaged the entire concept of email. Every day, I see comments about people whose unique email servers are automatically filtered by Google and Microsoft’s platforms. It would be massively beneficial to block all the big companies and have a healthier ecosystem like we have here in the fediverse.
o/
Idea of Fediverse is to provide decentralized network of social servers connected to each other. Defederation is an optional feature if some instance would go rogue. For now, connecting with Threads is not against Fediverse, it’s the opposite. Connecting with Threads fullfills the idea of Fediverse.
Disagree, federating with meta will kill the fedi. It will put all power in big tech.
How it will kill Fedi? Many people here are against big corporations so they will never quit Lemmy instance to move to Threads. But connecting to Threads will bring many new users. We can teach them the great power of Fediverse. We can communicate with each other despite having data on separate servers and anybody can choose an instance that is closer to their beliefs and opinions.
Same how google killed xmpp, how big tech killed email. Meta and big tech are just too powerful and they can destroy, takeover fedi with resources they have.
Last time I checked XMPP and e-mails are working just fine. I don’t know what you mean. How exactly Meta will kill Fedi?
With xmpp you could chat with people on messenger just by having xmpp account somewhere else. Now you cannot. And no email is not working just fine, self hosting email is hard now beacuse you are getting blocked if you are using big tech servers.
XMPP has it’s own problems, not really pleasant user experience etc. But yes, facebook first embraced it the cut you off anyone you had on messenger.
If this happens, meta will takeover fedi.
Which still doesn’t mean fedi should cooperate with meta or any other big tech, I dare to say not even with any company.
This is not cooperation, this is take over by meta. So far I see most fedi users are aganist federation with meta, I’m glad that’s the case.
He’s just some paid shill. They’ve been infiltrating Lemmy for months. Don’t even waste breath arguing with them. Just downvote them, jot down their screennames and warn others not to listen to them. Arguing with them directly is what they want so they can convince others there’s a legitimate debate to be had.
l o l, how you deduce I’m a “paid shill”. you sound more like paid shill tbh, even you probably aren’t
edit: now I see i probably i misunderstood you, sorry
It’s all good. I am talking about the shill you were getting goaded by, not you. Don’t sweat it; it happens.
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lol moderator removed my comment simply saying I enjoy using Threads!
You guys are hilarious!
Then go back to Threads and stop helping corporate oligarchs take over the internet.
Thanks for your concern about me!
Don’t worry, I do use threads and enjoy it quite a bit!
It’s easily the friendliest social media I’ve ever used, and I’ve never even had a Facebook account!
It’s sweet you think lil ole us using the internet actually affects things on the grand scheme of billions of users, though! Bless your heart!
So let people register and use Fediverse. Meta may provide some new cool thing which will talk via ActivityPub, and people may install and host it. That’s the acceptable way for their contribution.
Attaching a whole platform controlled by them centrally - no.
Following your logic we must federate with every CP and right-wing instance. Abusive parents would love your logic. “But we’re your parents you’re supposed to love us!”
@mypasswordis1234 I mean, what is the point in defederating while being in a Lemmy instance? You cannot interact with microblog while using #Lemmy. The only thing that comes to my mind is that threads users will not be able to comment on a lemmy post or comment, but let’s be honest, the way communities will probably federate to #threads (the same way it is today with mastodon*) is not good, thus reducing the amount of attraction a lemmy post can get over there.
- For some weird reason in the implementation of the AP protocol, lemmy posts are seems as just a link on mastodon, the replies are complete though. If someone understand this better and wants to explain, feel free to do it.
For some weird reason in the implementation of the AP protocol, lemmy posts are seems as just a link on mastodon, the replies are complete though.
ActivityPub allows two post formats, Notes and Articles. Articles support titles and therefore posts on Lemmy and threads on /kbin use them, while notes do not and are therefore used for microblogging and commenting. Currently Mastodon’s article federation only goes so far as linking the post for content, and to be honest I’m doubtful whether Threads will federate Articles at all given their carefulness with federation.
Yeah, close that protocol! Build the walls around our garden higher! No need to wait for them to actually do something worth defederating over, we just don’t like them!
This is silly. A major social media network is trying to join the Fediverse and everyone’s keen on stopping it. If Meta does something dirty or damaging, sure, defederate them then. But I was kind of hoping that open protocols would flourish, not just end up as another bunch of balkanized forums and Reddit-likes.
I’d be closer to agreeing with you if XMPP didn’t completely invalidate your point. They did it there and they’ll do it here.
Theres a reason nobody uses it anymore. Google extended the crap out of it, effectively took over the protocol and then retired it. It bears the same echoes of what’s happening here.
Ever play Plague Inc? The secret to winning is to not become deadly until you’ve already become engrained and established throughout society. Then you add the deadly features once you’re too deep in.
Don’t let the cancer establish itself as something innocent. The owner of the platform WILL take any opportunity to seize control of the media so it can seize control of the message.
I just love this comparison 🥰
The protocol only needed an open license that forbade profiting off user data.
That’s the only way to do it with minimal damage.
Defederating after this happens will cause a giant strain on the Fediverse and will simply accelerate the problems for which we don’t want Meta here in the first place.
For some reason I can’t dowvote this, so: this is a fucking stupid take
I honestly don’t understand how some of you have this point of view. This isn’t a they’ve been evil once or twice thing. This is a they’ve been evil at every single opportunity and actively seek out more opportunities to be evil for well over a decade and you’re a fucking moron for trusting them thing.
If you like meta so much, why are you here?
Every open protocol that survives past the first couple of days of actual use, no exceptions, has some mechanism whereby bad actors can be removed.
Don’t use “open protocol” as your excuse for sucking Zuck the Fuck off.
As I just said, I don’t like Meta. And keep your homophobic slurs out of civil discussion.
But they are not yet a bad actor on the Fediverse because they haven’t actually joined the Fediverse yet. If you’re so convinced that they’re going to do something awful, why the big deal about defederating preemptively?
You don’t like Meta. You’re just arguing vociferously for inviting Meta, a company with nearly two decades of documented abuse of everything they touch, into another space for them to fuck over.
Pull the other one, Sparky. It plays Jingle Bells.
There’s no need to invite Meta, the invitation has already been given by the fact that ActivityPub is an open protocol. I’m just very annoyed by the cavalcade of people who were so quick to tout that benefit over Reddit’s walled garden now turning on their heel and reacting “but not like that!” When that openness is made use of.
The microbloggers are a bit different than us, in that they actually try to create a “social circle.” Threaded discussions with random assholes like we enjoy tend to be more focused on giving us someone to reply to.
How are we supposed to do that when people like you are encouraging admins to defederate which removes any semblance of freedom of choice that you are fucking trying to imply we act upon?
This is what I’m thinking. I don’t understand why people fled from the corporate internet only to be excited to go back to them.
All of the corporate internet adopted open protocols in the first place. Expand your limited view and increase your awareness of the history of the networks as they evolved before Google, Microsoft, and Apple were beginning and end of tech. We got to now with open protocols. Now everything is being walled up by DRM since theyve managed to preintegrate it in all of the hardware across the board before the open protocols even come into play.
Sign up on Threads if you want Threads content. Fucking duh.
You can spin up your own server… That’s what the fediverse is.
The freedom to do whatever you want as an admin, and the freedom of choosing another server where you’ll still be part of the network
Meta/Facebook threatens this, because their user base dwarfs the rest of the fediverse. They’re also running their own closed source server code… They can gatekeep their own federation
I would love it if companies joined the fediverse, but like, by making instances. Maybe even use it for their internal Intranet. Maybe they could add federation compatible APIs to their existing software
I don’t want a massive social network company to use their position to make a new social network…
Federation is like Bitcoin or Tor - it’s decentralized, until one org becomes too large… At that point, they can control the network in countless ways
They’re a multinational corporation, they don’t need us to host their shit for you to be able to read a goddamn article and learn something.
If you don’t yet understand that they’re evil that’s on you.
But why do YOU get to choose for everyone else?
Choose what? If you want to find an instance unscrupulous enough to federate with that company then go for it. Who is stopping you?
People like OP here, begging admin to block it?
Like are you for real? He’s literally asking them to take my choice away.
It is always the admins’ choice, that has never been any different. You are free to choose which instance you are part of.
This petition changes nothing about that.
What if some of us don’t care if they’re evil?
Then you’re evil. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Go ahead, be evil. It is certainly your prerogative.
Edit: just look at how many votes “But what if some of us don’t care if they’re evil?” got. Like, what a wild-ass bullshit thing to say. This thread is definitely being astroturfed.
We should have rules against turfing like this in the community, and remove or ban people suspected of it. I get the benefits of having a neutral place but at the same time we don’t allow advertising here so why should suspected astroturfing be any different.
Read their replies. They are apparently being sincere. You have fallen victim to Poe’s law.
Lol
Thanks, it is my prerogative.
This is the point of the freedom of federated communities: we can read whatever the fuck we want from wherever the fuck we want without having authoritarian censor-heavy limp-wrist adult-baby moderators and corporate fascists determining what we are allowed to read or affiliate with.
The freedom to read both sides and control what I want to interact with on my own will, and make my own decisions is why I’m fucking here. I don’t want people like you making decisions for me, go fuck yourself.
Thanks for noticing I’m evil. I’ll go make a nice blood sacrifice to my effigy of Satan by eating another baby.
So when they steamroll this place so hard you only get their side of the story, what then?
Well fucking said.
Right, so nobody’s stopping you from joining threads, or making your own instance. You can call it evil.villain. Why don’t you?
I’ve noticed a lot of turfing on all of these threadsfed posts. It’s becoming more and more. People just need to get a threads account if it’s so important to them.
Well they’re clearly aware of us, we can’t pretend we’re just a bunch of silly little beans doing our own thing anymore. Of course they’re going to do this. There is literally not a single reason for them not to.
There is no plan for kbin to defederate with Threads, which is why I’m here you dolt. Maybe you should leave.
Makes sense, Kbin is one of the most lax instances when it comes to moderation and defederation, and that’s why they’re considered so bad when it comes to spam and illegal content.
Then get fucked?
Meta are largely responsible for the current state of affairs right now. Nearly every current war, genocide, fake news, and more can be tied back to Meta.
Are you seriously simplifying all current conflicts caused down to simply social media? So if we completely remove all social media, humanity instantly becomes the utopian society from science fiction. STFU with this stupidity you ignorant child.
Simply? No.
Dangerously and deliberately engageful? Yes.
Look at the impact of FB in the Rohingya genocide for fucks sake.
Fucking right wing wanker.
The fuck is wrong with you?
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Or build my own, which is great to have as a contingency.
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That’s the beauty of the fediverse, if the instance you’re on isn’t doing what you want, you can move to another one. Or create your own.
I’d say that’s a pretty clear indicator of the popularity of decisions. Saying “No, you can’t do that, cause I don’t want that” is putting your desires above the desires of others.
This is why I love federated communities; the freedom of choice is great to have.
When you fuck over people with their freedoms, you don’t deserve the freedom to be extended to you.
It’s the same as paradox of tolerance. You shouldn’t be tolerant to intolerance, and you shouldn’t give freedom to those who want to strip it away from you.
That’s like freedom 101.
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
You are either innocently unaware of how it works or just dissassociating from reality. Meta has to compete with Fediverse if it can’t directly harvest user activity for marketing and advertising systems. They quite obviously will (have to?) do everything they can to influence technical decisions that allow them to steer the protocols in a way that is profitable rather than for the good of the end users and communities.
They ultimately will seek to build walls around their development and services on their terms and leave others not part of their profitable ecology of development outside of those walls. They are a publicly traded corporation, this is just a normal evolution in for-profit corps, even if current employees do act as positive curators of community engagement.
How many times does Meta have to show you who they are before you start paying attention?
Federation means you can defederate for any reason. It’s not a set of principles, it is an ontological arrangement whereby power is distributed. Plenty of users will look for defederated instances to join because keeping facebook out of our shit is what we want. You are free to find instances that are federated. Nobody will stop you.
And as for things they’ve done, personally I find that knowingly stoking genocide in Myanmar is enough for me to not give them any more chances.
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“yes, they kill, torture, brutalize, pillage, and kick puppies, but if we don’t allow them an equal voice, can we truly say we are any better?”
Yes. Yes we can.
Defederation is part of the protocol.
At least make your rhetoric somewhat resemble reality? Please?
Nearly 20 years of Facebook abuse is apparently not a reason.
Holy fucking shit is the attention span of humanity getting short.
They’re confused and likely think that federation means no rules and unconditional access to any server from your account, when it couldn’t be further from the truth. I’ve said it elsewhere but people craving that don’t want the fediverse, they want Nostr.
This place is the way it is, why it’s enjoyable to be on, because we can and do defederate servers run by bots, trolls, or any other malicious actors, otherwise they run wild.
This IS Facebook. It’s guaranteed. They’re evil. Block them now.
Comment stolen from user “copygirl” from blahaj.zone:
Looks like they’ll be harvesting your data if you follow anyone from Threads, maybe even injecting ads. Unsure what happens to the data of people that get followed by a Threads user. A large part of the fediverse is here precisely because they want to escape corporate meddling, data-hoarding, advertising and other anti-user malpractices. There’s a number of people talking about this, here’s a recent post that highlights some of the things from their TOS.
Lemmy and mastodon profiles are public so I don’t know if privacy concerns are a problem unique to federation with meta considering they could just scrape your profile if they wanted the data that bad. I’d be much more concerned about small instance admins losing funding as users migrate to instances that federate with meta until threads and the big instances are the only ones left on the fediverse
Anyone can collect the data anyway, and I’m sure at least one person out there is already harvesting our Fediverse data.
There’s a big difference between some random person and Meta collecting the data.
Who says that Meta is not already harvesting our data? Lemmy really is about moving control out of corporate hands and decentralisation advantages, but profiling is insanely easy on the Fediverse, and it really cannot be different because of its inherent interconnectedness. It makes no sense to migrate from conventional social media to Fediverse equivalents if all one cares about is privacy.
Everything is public on fedi (if we’re talking about communities alike), so any bot can and is already scrapping everything through regular HTTP. You must be extremely ignorant to think otherwise.
How do you know that meta hasn’t created an account on a popular well federated server and it’s using those credentials to scrape the fetiverse?
You have to assume whatever your post to the Internet is available to anyone and everyone connected. Why would federated servers be and different.
created an account on a popular well federated server
Why would they do that?
They would create a custom instance.
Meta can collect every scrap of Lemmy right now
Edit: downvote for what? My comment is true
It’s not as if something was preventing them from
data-hoarding
and
harvesting your data
here anyway.
So that part about being followed by a Threads user is just a bit stupid.
The danger is in them becoming an integral part of the network where people don’t bother to register at a normal instance, and then Meta pulling out and the network remaining half-dead.
Is there any sort of legal precedent that covers a situation where:
- I am a user on a network server.
- Meta connects their server to my server so their users and I can interact.
- Am I now bound by a terms of service on Meta’s server that I have not agreed to and may have never seen or been presented with?
When I joint my instance, am I implicitly agreeing to any terms of service that exist on any instance that my instance decides to federate with?#
Someone actually asked an almost identical question on StackEx a while ago. (things may have changed since) From what I got from skimming the answer, is there is precedence, and it should be covered within the TOS of the hosting website/network (i.e. lemmy.world)
If anything meta integrates here I’m out.
See you, have fun talking by yourself.
I donate a nice chunk of cash to lemmyworld servers and devs. Meta is going to reduce the quality of Lemmy. It is going to get overrun with bots and advertisments and genuine conversations are going to dissapear. I and probably many other donators will not want to stick around if we get overrun with bot posts and advertisements like reddit.
Wouldn’t it be nice if you had the power to block instances yourself?
That way these discussions don’t even need to be had. People can control the content they want instead of arguing with each other over what others should see.
That sounds terrifying, how much horrible shit you gotta see before deciding to block a whole instance?
It doesn’t have to be horrible. It can just be something you, personally, don’t want to see.
That’s why I like Sync. Instance blocking power at my fingertips
Same, I’m right on the edge of giving up on it too. Anything meta and Twitter touch just turns to shit.
There’s a list of people that have agreed to block it at https://fedipact.online/
Graphic design is my passion.
Web 1.0 always was a good lookin kid
The design convinced me to give meta a chance.
People are overreacting.
No we’re not. Read up on what happened to xmpp. Google joined it, made the service much slower for people not on their servers, everybody joined their servers, they shut their service down for their own proprietary stuff.
Edit: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
Embrace
Extend
ExtinguishThat doesn’t make sense. If Google was making xmpp worse then the servers could just defederate. At this moment threads has not done anything to warrant defederation.
Just because you have no experience, you think it’s overreacting.
Compared to you who has so much experience with threads joining the fediverse.
I really don’t think that’s the case.
This is a nice little place, meta barging in Will fuck it all up
They aren’t barging in. You need to follow the threads user. Only on mastodon are they “barging in”.
Let’s not defederate from every corporate player. Some of them can probably respect reasonable rules of civility.
But fuck Meta. We already know how this plays out.
We know there’s a huge wave of hatred and misinformation incoming. We’ve seen it on their other platforms.
When Tumblr came out about the idea of opening up and using activity pub people were in favor of that idea. It’s not just hating companies, Facebook really has a bad track record when it comes to abusive practices and also extremely poor content moderation (you can find right wing hate speech on Facebook despite them having policies against it, people report it and nothing happens).
There was an interesting paired poll done, asking about federation with Threads and federation with Tumblr.
66% of people were wary of or actively opposed federating with Threads. Fewer than 20% were wary of or actively opposed federating with Tumblr.
It’s not “defederate from every corporate player”. It’s passing this message on to Meta:
How about users make decisions for themselves and block Threads if they want?
I fully support this.
Anything that touches the internet can be scraped. Mastodon DMs aren’t encrypted, and public posts are obviously public. There’s nothing stopping someone from using the API or any web crawler to harvest data on mastodon users anyway.
Not arguing for/against threads, tbh I don’t even use mastodon much because I don’t really like the idea of microblogging to begin with
Public Mastodon posts are already indexed by search engines.
Indexing by search engines and what Meta harvests are astronomically different - I fail to see your point.
If I am on Mastodon, there is nothing that Threads can collect from me that they can not get already. My posts are public, Meta or anyone else doesn’t need permission to look at them.
The only risk is if I am sending direct messages to someone on Threads from Mastodon, then obviously Meta has a copy. ActivityPub is not E2E encrypted, you shouldn’t be using it for private communication at all, the threat model is the same between Threads and any other Mastodon server.
Alright, fair enough, but why would anyone allow meta even an inch of space into a ‘free’ platform? Have you seen the numerous ( and to be fair, much better articulated) comments on this very thread concerning “EEE”? Don’t you think it’s alarming how many people support Meta joining?
I’m thinking of it from a grand scale: Folks in this thread are essentially saying “awe, c’mon, it’s probably okay if Zuck’s mega-corp puts it’s foot in the door of a burgeoning federated forum community; what could go wrong?”
Hey- let’s talk in five years and see what happens- yeah?
I’m okay with Threads federating because there are a some people I know who won’t use Mastodon but will use Threads, and I would like to talk to them without downloading Threads. That’s probably true for most of the people supporting it, or they just think it should be up to individuals instead of the admin making unilateral decisions about who you’re allowed to talk with.
Threads joining would also introduce a far wider group of people to Fedi that isn’t just “nerds who like Linux and/or programming”, which is the bulk of people using Mastodon (and Lemmy, for that matter) right now. I’m not really concerned about EEE because there will always be a huge chunk of people using the FOSS platforms.
Alright, fair enough, but why would anyone allow meta even an inch of space into a ‘free’ platform?
It’s an open protocol, they can join if they want. That’s kinda the point of being an open protocol, anyone willing to implement it just can.
I imagine that if tomorrow Meta decides to run a free email service ala Hotmail or Gmail you’d be demanding that they will destroy email everywhere if they aren’t put on every black hole list immediately?
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Threads said that they’re going to be opt-in. Each user will have to actively enable federation, so all this scary news seem a bit pointless to me.
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This is the way.
Why not just let the serial killer psychopath hang out in the mall, if people don’t want to hang out with them they don’t have to.
I can kinda see the point, but also without providing actual reasons, this post just seems like a LARP.
I got a reason! It’s because people are afraid meta is doing what Microsoft did to a much earlier project. The crux of that whole story is that Microsoft adopted the new tech, became the biggest player thus dominating the area, then, when they had full control of the tech they ended up shutting it down. Some people are convinced meta is going to do that to the fediverse.
This is vague and handwavy, I’m hoping someone actually knows the name of the project. It was early 90s I believe or maybe into the early 00s but it was before my time in the tech sphere of the internet.
I don’t understand how they would control it
Corporate servers with corp funding and corp advertising using existing instagram and facebook support to onboard more users and generate content to the point where they drown out non-thread content to a point where, theoretically, non-thread servers become silent for content and more read-only.
Then, they pull the plug, and the fledgeling communities we had here have withered and have to restart all over again.
Who knows if thats the actual goal, but thats the idea.
makes sense. and the alternative is that the fediverse rips itself apart before then by de-federating with itself
That’s exactly their goal
just by being the biggest player in the system so all the activity is on their server, then they shut it down and leave the rest of the drivers with a big hole in the community.
So… we would be back to exactly how we are now?
You might not understand how they are going to control it, but they do. Facebook doesn’t do anything without a plan on how to either get a ton of money from something or a plan on how to destroy that thing. So the fact that they are trying to integrate into the fediverse means they have a plan. They are smarter and more evil than anyone here in the area of making money and destroying competitors, and they will 100% do one of those things, probably both.
So basically your argument is “they are Satan but I have no idea how they could actually do anything. But they are Satan!”
They’re a known bad actor and embrace, extend, extinguish is a demonstrated method for eliminating platforms like fediverse.
Give me an example on how they would be able to “extinguish” the fediverse then. This entire thread is full of people saying this slogan, yet nobody has explained how a free open source software would even be susceptible to any attempts at “extinguishing”.
Why are you defending Zuckerberg?
Remember when Mark Zuckerberg Called People Who Handed Over Their Data “Dumb Fucks”?
I’m seriously starting to think Lemmy is being filled with shills. It’s the only logical reason here
Ah yes, filled to brim with shills. Totally not paranoid people who can’t even explain how facebook could ruin the fediverse in any way.
If he wanted your data, he would have gotten it already. It’s not hard to scrape the fediverse at all.
All that would happen is more people would join the fediverse, nothing more. But by all means, be scared, defederate from everything and enjoy your small bubble with 3 active users.
Your rationale is truly bizarre and somewhat worrying but I won’t spend too much brain power trying to understand. Cheers to you anyway and happy holidays
They have their branding which will push people to use their platform. More people using their platform = more content coming from threads. Once they have enough posts from threads that people from other instances are used to seeing mostly threads content they’ll defederate. People will miss the volume of posts and then move to threads.
Where will those users come from? Not from the Fediverse. There aren’t enough Fediverse users to sustain even one month of Threads growth. They do not care about the Fediverse at all.
Threads has lots of users because they just signed everyone up who has an Instagram account. They aren’t trying to steal Fediverse users or “extinguish” the technology, they’re trying to be a Twitter alternative.
Also, people here don’t need extra content from Threads. We already have content. You can just personally block Threads if you don’t like it. It’s your choice.
“They do not care about the Fediverse at all.”
And yet here we are with Meta trying to join the fediverse.
Pretty fucking odd behaviour for an entity that “do not care at all”, no?
They do not care for growth or anything else. They’re just implementing ActivityPub to look like “the good guys” compared to Musk, and also probably to try and look nice in front of the European Union. “See? We’re implementing open protocols, we’re not a gatekeeper anymore!”
You’re talking about XMPP, and it was google with google chat that people refer to with it.
That said, there’s a lot of details that story people throw around about google killing it that lacks some details. Specifically that the premier service that used and developed the standard, jabber, was acquired by cisco like 8 years before google supposedly killed it, which i would argue affected it far harder than google chat did.
It’s also lacking a lot of modern features that were becoming staple around the time that it was killed; i.e. QoS, assured delivery, read receipts, and a few other things. I still don’t think the protocol supports them.
Also, the protocol still exists and is used. It’s used by microsoft in skype for business, it’s also the IM protocol for lots of gaming platforms like origin, playstation, the switch (for its push notifications for their online service), League of legends, fortnite, and others. It’s still a reasonably popular standard when it comes to chat programs, though none of them that i’m aware of use the actual federation piece of it to talk to each other.
While the tactic alluded to does exist (“embrace, extend, extinguish”), i’ve never been necessarily convinced that google “kiled” xmpp, as its been around a long time and continues to be for various reasons. Even with google chat, it was never a ‘front end’ thing many users even thought about, because it’s back end frameworks tech, and it continues to be so in lots of different places today. I’m reasonably sure that the people who get upset about it and proclaim google killed it are basically just upset that it didn’t become the defacto chat standard today, which i would argue almost nothing is the defacto standard anyways, unless you count discord which kinda came out of nowhere like a whirlwind and took over the chat space and has nothing to do with any XMPP drama.
Ultimately, its up to you (whoever is reading this) to look into the facts of the matter and decide for yourself if that’s what really happened, but keep in mind, the people who usually repeat the anecdote about how google killed it have an agenda to push. I’m personally skeptical, because there’s reasons for google to have dropped it (see mentioned limitations above), and even back then, it wasn’t that outrageously popular. In fact, i would argue its more widely used today than it was back then, but i have no hard numbers on that.
