Have seen a few posts popping up recently just straight up calling fo violence barely disguised as memes
Had thought Lemmy had chilled out a bit on that kinda thing for a while but seems to be coming back now
Anyone else noticing the same or just me?
what is the opposite of “radical”, in your opinion, and was lemmy like that before “lately”?
Need to get rid of all the guns in America.
It’s useful to remember that Americans are a minority on the English-speaking internet. There’s only 330 million of us, while the world has an estimated 1.5 billion English speakers. Probably much more if we include people that just know some of the language.
English is the global trade language, it’s frequently taken in school as a second language all over the world. If you learn some English, the amount of activities available to you dramatically increases.
Sure, I’m not American myself. But I’m pretty sure much of the violent rhetoric on social media right now around killing CEOs etc is from Americans. The murder of Brian Thompson happened in America after all and all the anger around health insurance wouldn’t really make sense in most of the world where there’s universal health care.
Certainly. But anti-elitist sentiment is broader than just this country, as is anti-capitalist sentiment. There’s a broad coalition of people that would celebrate something like this for a variety of reasons. I try to avoid taking people online purely at face value, since its so easy and commonplace to simply spin one’s opinions slightly into something that seems similar to solidarity with one specific position, but in reality is operating from a subtly different motive in an enemy-of-my-enemy sort of way.
That said, I do agree that a lot of it is from Americans. But it would be in the interest of a variety of different chaos-interested positions to amplify that in any way possible. To a communist, its class warfare. To a geopolitical rival, it’s a blow against stability. To the far right, it’s a blow against the liberal order. To social media companies its an enticing engagement. Etc etc etc.
edit for a typo and an extra example
Radical but not logical. Make a post about a violent criminal who murders someone. And then poll the community if that criminal should get the death penalty. And I’ll bet the majority would say no and be against the death penalty for all convicted criminals. But those same people have no problem cheering on the murder of someone that they don’t like. If a person can live with this contradiction I’d guess that they just aren’t thinking for themselves but following a crowd.
The state has convicted and executed innocent people. The average criminal subject to capital punishment has killed an order (or several) of magnitudes fewer people than the health insurance industry.
As a country we seem to weigh more heavily acts of individual violence than those of systemic violence or violence borne of policy even when the latter 2 have far more impactful and wide spread negative results. It’s completely logical to draw a distinction between the 2 circumstances.
I’m not saying all vigilante justice is good, and I wouldn’t necessarily be against the state holding to account executives who have produced systems and policies that result in the harm or death of the state’s citizens, but in the current system justice is rare and in this act millions of people received justice.
and I wouldn’t necessarily be against the state holding to account executives who have produced systems and policies that result in the harm or death of the state’s citizens
Right, except if everything went exactly correctly as per the current justice system, the company would be found at fault, fined an absurd amount of money and closed. The wealthy executives who made the decisions that actually resulted in country-wide deaths would get sizable severance packages, take a short vacation, and 6 months to a year later open up the same business under a new name that imposes the same policies. It’ll be right back to throwing poors into a furnace to fuel their lamborgini’s until the next slap on the wrist.
We have no system to hold people accountable for their decisions as part of a company. We blame the company and then trust the company to police their staff accordingly. I’d love a widespread rework of the justice system to actually target the people responsibly for a companies actions, but we won’t get one, so instead, someone has been shot.
It’s not necessarily a contradiction. Lots of people now trust a “fellow man” to make a judgement on who deserves death more than the state.
So they aren’t against killing “evil” people, they just don’t agree with the state’s definition of “evil”, or deny its right to decide that.Basically, it’s the premise of Batman: When the state has failed to deliver justice, the people turn to vigilante justice.
Vigilante justice is so cool right up to the point that it is used against the people that you admire. And that is the contradiction.
It’s not execution, it’s class war.
It was clearly an execution of an innocent man.
The guy was shot with his own words. Nothing innocent about it.
He was shot with bullets by a murderer.
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everyone who isn’t sad he died, really, is honouring his legacy. if you were sad he died, you might as well be pissing in his casket and shitting on his tombstone.
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He wasn’t killing anyone.
That’s a naive statement.
Using other words to describe murder doesn’t make it different.
Is Ukraine murdering Russians? Is Palestine murdering Israelis? Would it be murder if they killed Putin or Netanyahu?
You seem to think war which has been around since the beginning of time is the same thing as an individual violating civil law and murdering another individual. I find it fascinating reading posts and comments about this incident because it’s as if those who condemn murder are in some way fans of the guy that got murdered. I don’t know anything about him as an individual, but I think it is obscene for the head people of any company to get paid such a huge amount in comparison to the other employees. And in general I think health insurance companies suck. I’m saying that from personal experience. And, I don’t know, but the guy who got murdered may have put into effect policies that fucked many people who deserved insurance benefits and were denied. So was he a bad guy? Probably. But it doesn’t mean murdering him is justified or should be endorsed.
The problem with supporting breaking a law is that eventually someone that you like or admire, but who is hated by a large portion of the country is murdered like this guy. Then all of a sudden it’s a problem. You can’t have it both ways
I mean this is just another form of certain people taking advantage of other which is as old as war
Class war is war.
The US has literally bombed its citizens on 2 occasions because of class resistance. The military has literally taken up arms against the citizens it swore to protect over class differences. We describe violent clashes between workers and the bourgeoisie as “battles.”
Just because we’ve experienced a period of unprecedented peace doesn’t mean class conflict is over–it will not be over until class is abolished.
Also, revolutions, civil war, and war in general are most often illegal.
There is actually no contradiction. I’m pretty sure everyone would be on board with those CEOs going to prison for life instead of them being killed.
The difference is that a convicted murderer is being punished. Healthcare CEOs are instead rewarded with a life of luxury for killing people. The law does not punish them for their transgressions. A citizen can not imprison the CEO for life. What they can do is shoot em.
So what many people are saying is that “rather a bad person gets punished than rewarded”. And if the only realistic punishment possible is killing them, because it’s fast and easy to do, then that’s deemed as acceptable even though killing is bad. Being rewarded for being evil is worse.
A CEO doesn’t kill anyone.
And they certainly don’t ever go on the lolita express.
I don’t understand why people think in these terms, “If you approve of violence being done by your side, you must also approve of violence done against your side.” I’m not taking a principled stand in favor of violence for violence’s sake. I support that which hurts the enemy and oppose that which hurts friendlies.
Stealing from the rich? Good. Stealing from the poor? Bad. Killing exploiters? Good. Killing the exploited? Bad. There’s no contradiction here because my stance is based on self-interest and the interest of my class, not on any sort of categorical moral claim about some particular form of action.
Is Lemmy getting more bootlicker lately?
Hopefully!
Slaves cheering when a slave owner dies seems pretty normal, no?
Nothing of the sort happened lately in the news.
The recent killing of the UHC CEO seems to have pushed all the right buttons in activating people’s bloodlust and mob mentality. But I actually looked at some of the threads on reddit after being a bit taken aback by the reaction on Lemmy, and redditors were being just as violent. So I don’t think it’s Lemmy getting more radical, it’s just the flavor of the week right now to celebrate violence, as long as it’s against the bad guys.
The main doctor Reddit had to delete a whole thread due to bloodlust.
We are rampant for a revolution. Everyone is united in how pissed they are over health insurance. We need to seize this moment.
A successful revolution takes a whole lot more than bloodlust and directionless anger. The emotion is there, but there is no revolutionary framework or ideology in place to direct that feeling towards meaningful change. This seeming “unity” is ephemeral, it’ll be forgotten as soon as the next media cycle starts.
No it won’t. Kill people’s family and they’ll spend years thinking of ways to get revenge. Multiply that by millions. Multiply that by desperate economic conditions. I am one of the people who lost a parent to these ghouls, and I’ve had 13 years to think about it. This killing woke up some deep emotions that aren’t going to go away anytime soon.
We’ve been sitting on a powder keg for a while. It doesn’t take many people to start some shit - a few more assassinations and things will change fast.
We’ve been sitting on a powder keg for a while. It doesn’t take many people to start some shit - a few more assassinations and things will change fast.
Things will change for the worse. We just elected Donald Trump and the government is controlled by conservatives. How exactly are you expecting them to react to CEOs getting assassinated? You think they’re going to come to the table and work out a plan for universal healthcare, a compromise?
Fuck no, they’re going to fight fire with fire. And they’ve already proved they can manufacture consent from average Americans by taking advantage of their stupidity to make them go against their best interests.
I’m sorry for your loss, but this nonsense isn’t going to bring anyone back, it’s just going to lead to even more suffering and violence.
They already fight fire with fire. What’s your solution, continue to lay down and take it? Continue, for decades, to get anally raped with no lube?
As a bullied child, that’s not how this works. You fight back. Drones have proven themselves in Ukraine. A new asymmetrical warfare is coming and it’s best we catch these overprivileged shitheads while they’re still finding their balance in this new world the assassin ushered in. They need to be reminded they are neither invincible nor untouchable.
I’m on your side. You’re speaking out of desperation, lashing out instinctually.
But as I said before, directionless anger will not get you far. You and those like you will surely fail, and all of your rage will amount to nothing.
As they say, when you come at the king, you best not miss. As bad as you feel the situation is now, it could be far, far worse.
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You sound like you’re discouraging more assassinations. If so we’re not on the same side.
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He killed a mass murderer who murdered people who’s names he didn’t even know so rich people could get staggeringly rich.
Like ok, vigilante justice is a mixed bag. But if you’ve ever felt relief at any killing of a dangerous and violent person who victimises the vulnerable then the only reason you wouldn’t feel that now is because you think some words on a scroll change morality.
When you see the entire justice system turning into a dry popcorn fart for the rich and powerful it does that to a society that can barely afford groceries.
🤔 These fart metaphors are becoming increasingly obsuscre.
It’s called jumping the fart.
Lemmy seems to have more crazies on it lately who are advocating for murder of innocent people just because they don’t like them.
Reddit sucks and now Lemmy is going down the tubes. Hopefully these people either get banned or Lemmy servers that advocate for senseless violence get shut down.
Where do you think they got the $10 million/year to pay this man? Who do you think instituted a policy to use AI for approvals/denials, which resulted in a 90% false rejection rate? What’s crazy is acting like the murder of thousands of people through denial of medical care for money, if done from a sufficient distance, is somehow less abhorrent than doing it up close and with a gun.
Expecting people who have either been directly impacted or had family medical care impacted by the policies of this man to show sympathy for him isn’t just unrealistic, it’s deranged. Considering United is one of the largest insurance companies in the US, that’s a lot of fucking people who are at best apathetic about the whole situation.
Obligatory ‘I suspect some people who can’t read might reply to this’ disclaimer: obviously you shouldn’t murder people. Including if you’re a healthcare CEO and it’s done by setting policies to squeeze the maximum profit out of people before they die.
No, people shouldn’t murder individuals who work at companies they don’t like.
And the people that run those companies, should they kill people depending on their company for healthcare if it makes them money?
Just because they don’t like them? We’re you able to keep a straight face while typing that?
This is why people are celebrating. They didn’t like the person who was killed. They certainly wouldn’t celebrate if someone didn’t like one of their friends and their friend was murdered.
Your words are in human english, but your sentiment is that of some sort of unfeeling golem.
It’s not only normal and OKAY to dislike evil money hoarding capitalist oligarchs, but it is our duty for the sake of the future of humanity.
Your defense of these “people” is quite disgusting. If you don’t have 10+ million dollars you should be on the side that is rooting for a better future, not the side building underground bunkers and setting the air on fire.
It makes me not like you either.
So what, because you don’t like me, you’re going to murder me like the CEO was murdered? We just get to murder anyone we don’t like now and it’s somehow okay???
THAT’S the disgusting attitude, not someone who believes that people shouldn’t murder others.
There’s a difference between being annoying online and being hated because you think Scrooge McDuck wasn’t greedy enough. No one is going to ice you for having bad tales on the Internet.
do you hold stock in straw men or something? this person claiming they want to kill anyone they dislike? i don’t think they exist, and if they do, they’re clearly not in this conversation, so idk why you keep feeling the need to address them.
All I said was that I don’t like you dipshit. I’m not some boogeyman who is now going to appear like Bloody Mary because I don’t like you.
But if there was a post that said “Dipshit bootlicker murdered at his computer while typing apologist manifesto for the bourgeoisie” I’d probably be okay with it.
In a world rife with overpopulation, we don’t need people who say “Maybe it IS okay for giant corporations to keep their boot on everyones neck.”
just because they don’t like them.
Wow what a way to oversimplify the problem. Would you have been saying this in May 1945?
It’s not oversimplified.
What’s next? The guy who runs the corner gas station sells cigarettes at his store. Cigarettes are addictive and known to cause cancer. So this means the guy who owns the gas station should get murdered?
What about the CEOs of the gun companies? Should they get murdered because they put out a product that people use to kill others?
What’s next? The guy who runs the corner gas station sells cigarettes at his store. Cigarettes are addictive and known to cause cancer. So this means the guy who owns the gas station should get murdered?
He’s not the one making them, the cigarette companies are
What about the CEOs of the gun companies? Should they get murdered because they put out a product that people use to kill others?
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“it’s not oversimplified, oversimplifies and strawmans” lol
CEOs aren’t innocent
You’re right, not enough people are being banned for supporting Israel or health insurance companies.
That’s not the reason to ban people. People should be banned for advocating for violence or for insulting others.
Supporting Israel or health insurance companies is advocating for violence.
Time for you to go back to Reddit.
I’ll go wherever I want.
The phrase “I’ll go wherever I want” is usually said to antagonize and threaten violence. Why are you threatening me?
One can only hope Hell is on that itinerary just based on the way you casually throw around labels like ‘crazy’. Bet you’ll be calling freedom fighters ‘terrorists’ next like some ignorant Amerikan next.
god willing
Yes, but, see everyone else’s statements.
Also, lemmy.ml is widely seen as a very radical instance. The polarization and downvoting for contrary opinions is far worse around here.
Yeah it’s awesome, need more of it
Yes and no.
There are more calls for violence, yes.
But a lot of people on Lemmy have a lot of catching up to do in understanding the world, nuances and getting rid of outdated and harmful thinking stagnated by clinging onto certain ideologies and belief systems.
That would be way more ‘radical’ than just violence alone.
There is definitely a trend towards calling for death and violence against billionaires and other powerful figures that I’ve observed over a while.
Can you think of anything that happened in the past month or so, perhaps involving US politics, that might have a tendency to radicalize people?
What communities?
