Anyone on Loops? I tried signing up a few days ago, but the sign up page wasn’t working. Now the landing page says they aren’t accepting new users.
It took a day before I got my activation email. There was no indication on the website it was gonna take that long, but I’m guessing it’s early enough that it might still require manual approval.
That said it’s still very much a ghost town
How is it a ghost town if there is a new video someone posts like every 10 minutes?
Are you kidding me?
I thought it was more than that when I called it a ghost town.Imagine if in the entirety of Lemmy, in all channels of all instances, there was a total of 6 posts per hour, and none of them were in channels you wanted to subscribe to.
Signal is not Fediverse! Element/Matrix is!
Don’t use Matrix the devs knew about sidechannel vulnerabilities and ignored them for years. This is peak negligence and should immediately disqualify you from touching anything security related.
the author literally picked random projects from github tagged as matrix, without considering their prevalence or whether they are actually maintained etc.
if you actually look at % of impacted clients, it’s tiny.
meanwhile, it is very unclear that any sidechannel attack on a libolm based client is practical over the network (which is why we didn’t fix this years ago). After all, the limited primitives are commented on in the readme and https://github.com/matrix-org/olm/issues/3 since day 1.
From your link.
That is exactly what it says. They knew about security issues in their library and didn’t fix them for years. This isn’t being ignorant, this is negligence.
You do not have a solution.
I do, use Signal if you care about privacy. They are the only game in town when it comes to reasonably secure chat software. Sure, I would prefer a federated alternative but I haven’t found one yet that is always end-to-end encrypted, open source, implements forward secrecy, and is user friendly enough to be used by my grandmother.
SimpleX is better, you don’t even need a phone number.
SimpleX is cool, but fails the “my grandmother can use it” requirement. Signal has the huge benefit that is just as easy as WhatsApp. With Simplex you have to invite each of your friends individually.
Scan a QR isn’t difficult, there are also tantum links
With Signal you just have to install the App and make an account to start chatting with your friends and family. SimpleX requires me to send a link or QR code to everybody I want to interact with. You will have a hard time convincing anyone to do that. Compare that to the first Twitter exodus, people chose Bluesky over Mastodon because picking a server was ‘difficult’. The average person doesn’t care about technology at all and will always pick the path of least resistance.
Thanks
No, Matrix is federated differently.
And Signal isn’t?!
Signal is centralised.
You now understood both my point and the OC’s, I hope.
Signal is not federated.
Bless your heart.
Absolutely, signal isn’t federated, but I don’t want my messaging app to be federated. I want my social media to be federated. Lemmy is good because it’s open. Signal is good because it’s shut.
That’s your preference and there’s nothing wrong with it. Doesn’t make Signal a Fediverse alternative. Matrix fits that use case.
I prefer my messaging to be federated for the same reason I don’t want my other services depending on the benevolence of a single actor. But that’s me.
Element/matrix aren’t part of the fediverse, either. It doesn’t speak AP.
Matrix is federated, Signal is not.
although it is federated, it isn’t apart of the fediverse, as it doesn’t use activitypub.
Fair point, definitely still apart of the same style of platform but not the same protocol.
afaik ap is no hard requirement to be considerted fediverse
afaik ap is not a hard requirement for being in the fediverse, matrix is often included because it has the same federation idea
Then email is a part of the fediverse? UUCP nets? IRC nets?
All federated, none speak AP.
I think a good working definition is “speaks the w3c standard AP”. Otherwise, its totally lost its meaning.
what about diaspora?
D* generally isn’t, excepting the few instances that also speak AP.
I’d like to argue that using AP is an inconsistent rule for membership. For example, Diaspora has been considered to be part of the fediverse from early on, but it doesn’t use AP.
I don’t really know where to draw the line. AP simply isn’t suitable for some applications, but it makes sense to include it for branding
I don’t know of anyone who include d*, accepting the tiny number of d* pods that also speak AP.
I mean, nostr is also NOT part of the fediverse, but another federated and decentralized network.
Both Wikipedia and fediverse.party consider Diaspora, and a handful of other (mostly defunct) protocols as being part of the fediverse.
I don’t really like the use of AP to be a qualification of being in the fediverse. There must be a better way to qualify a platform, even if it means that use of AP is a natural consequence.
Are we claiming now that Activity Pub is the only protocol that we can use for the fediverse? I think XMPP is roughly 30 years old at this point, and I’m pretty sure Activity Pub is much younger than that. I could be wrong though.
But regardless, I don’t see why Activity Pub has to be the only protocol we accept to be considered a part of the fediverse. It’s not even like different AP implementations talk to each other all that well. My understanding is that Mastodon doesn’t federate that well with Lemmy, and I haven’t seen Loops or Pixelfed on Lemmy yet either.
I’d be happy to be corrected on any of this though, I haven’t looked too closely into exactly how AP works or how it’s supposed to interoperate with different applications.
I mean, yeah… the fediverse, specifically, are AP servers, which is why we don’t include diaspora for it.
It’s decentralized and federated, to be sure, just not the “fediverse”.
Fediverse is about federation. It’s not Activityverse. So yeah, email, Usenet, IRC, XMPP, Matrix… all Fediverse, all an antidote to corporate walled gardens.
Edit: not demeaning AP, it’s a great achievement and the services built upon it are a testament to its quality and forward-thinking.
I’m just saying that there’s deficiencies in those other networks. Just that they are different networks.
Now if an xmpp user can directly message or communicate with a Mastodon user… then they’d be both part of the “fediverse”.
I am a Lemmy user, can I message a Pixelfed user? All other AP users? Signal users?
Signal, no. And yes, Lemmy’s integration via AP is sub-perfect. Ie, I can (and do) follow communities on lemmy, with my Mastodon and pixelfed accounts.
So, work is needed, and only happens if a) same protocol is used, or b) bridge modules are used (like friendica does).
If someone made an xmpp bridge to talk AP, then it’s would be one big network, like how a lot of irc nets get bridged with xmpp nets, which makes those one, singular, federated network. But until they start speaking the protocol the rest of the fediverse does, it’s just another network.
And again, it’s not a bad thing. It’ll even probably get there eventually.
removed by mod
Woo! Made one of first steps of switching today!
BlueSky is the transfer from X. Mastodon isn’t it bro
Why do you think so?
So far I’m getting much more interaction on Mastodon than Bluesky
Great graphic! The only things I use on this list are reddit and youtube. Trying peertube now. I’m confused about whatsapp and facebook messenger - don’t people just use the texting app that comes with their phone?
You can’t text abroad for free. I guess texting is fine if you only communicate within the country.
Sms is bad if you care about privacy, but great for voyeurs.
I frequently send dick pics between two of my phone numbers with fake messages about selling drugs and blowing things up attached, triggering them for a manual review in the government/carrier’s office.
Signal is very useful for minorities and anyone who’s actually planning a terrorist attack.
I don’t send dick pics or plan terrorist attacks, so if voyeurs or Big Gubmint snoop on my texts they’ll be disappointed.
Briar is better for particular dangerous situations, SimpleX is a ‘more comfy’ great alternative.
One thing to keep in mind: briar DOES disclose MAC addresses for all interfaces, to enable contact discovery and routing.
Not a show stopper, but it is something to be aware of.
SMS is so ass, I can’t even.
Then it’s official. SMS is so ass, one cannot even.
No one pays for SMS.
SMS is generally free and unlimited with almost any postpaid mobile plan. If you’re still paying for SMS then you should switch providers.
postpaid
Any chance you’re American?
Yes but I also don’t much GAF about my phone. I only use it for calls and texting and as a camera. Can’t enjoy games or videos on such a small device, let alone writing code, so I mostly ignore it.
Well, not what I was pointing at. It’s pretty much an American thing to just use the preinstalled messaging app and pretend there are no others, that’s why the whole blue bubble / green bubble drama is pretty much exclusive to the US.
Switching from WhatsApp to any other messaging service isn’t a realistic option for quite many places. I’d be more than willing to switch but of all the people in my contacts (including my entire customer base) there’s like 3 people using Signal but every single one of them has WhatsApp. Even the 60+ year olds.
There is always SMS for these.
Personally I see no benefit in having them in the same application.
There benefit would be exactly what this top comment is about. For all those people in your contacts who don’t use signal, you could still use signal to message them, it would just be an SMS message. It would therefore also become more enticing for people to switch from their stock SMS app to signal, because it would make no difference in terms of who you can send SMS messages to. It would allow for the signal user base to grow, solving the issue of “no one uses signal”
At least WhatsApp is encrypted and let you have propre group chat
WhatsApp’s a scam, anti-libre software.
Yes but it is still better than SMS.
Saying it’s secure feeds their scam. At least we don’t pay for it like SMS.
You still pay for SMS? Wtf, what country do you live in? Most postpaid mobile plans these days only charge for data usage. In which case, your still paying to use WhatsApp.
postpaid
Are you from the global south? Because it’s still a common thing for SMS to be chargeable in many countries. And no one should be using SMS anyway. It’s horribly insecure. At least use RCS.
I did not say it was secure, I actually spend a lot of time explaining to people that it is secure and they should switch to Signal. However, I will not tell them to go back to SMS for the reason aforementioned.
Saying it’s
secureencrypted feeds their scam. At least we don’t pay for it like SMS.
My trouble as well, I’d love to switch from Whatsapp, but literally every person I talk to and most people in my city/estate/country uses It.
There’s a “vendor lock” term, maybe this would be a “social lock”?
It has to start with someone. I made my entire family switch to signal by boycotting WhatsApp. I just said, of you want to contact me your can either SMS, email or install signal. It was surprisingly easy. For non family members, I tell people to switch all the time. Most of my contacts now use signal. It was worth the trouble.
Yeah same for me. I guess some (quite many actually) people are aware Whutsapp&Co is evil and are just waiting for an opportunity to make the move.
Don’t get me wrong, I tried the switch, multiple times.
Where I live the vast majority uses pre-paid plans that give internet bandwidth, some calls but hardly no SMS, so that’s not an alternative, unless in an emergency or you want to contact someone unilaterally.
If I want someone to use it, they will have to convince their other circles to do the same, which statically decreases the chances of switching, and you get things like: “but we’re already talking fine on Whats (whatsapp)”, “it’s too much trouble to have another app just for you”, “I don’t care who’s behind the app, its works fine”.
To add salt to injury, many places (like stores, restaurants, salons, etc), have WhatsApp as the main communication method, some companies will even have the option to update you on things like delivery or banking solutions via WhatsApp.
It’s something so ingrained in our culture at this point that is super hard to change.
I’m not looking for solutions here, just stating a sad state of affairs, I like privacy but it’s not always an option living in society.
I would say it’s a step by step work. I have moved my family from Whatsapp to Signal years ago and then to Matrix. I forced them in some way but I just said “sorry if you want to keep contact we will have to find another app, I don’t accept Whatsapp ToS.” It took some time but my close family and friends are there and I regularly get someone to join, friend or family. It’s still close circle but it’s also a good thing. Same went with work. Colleagues wanted to do a whatsapp group for a project and I basically said “No, best I can do is Signal.” and they went with it.
I stopped with Signal. Getting coworkers/family to move to signal was enough work, but I also trust the signal protocol enough to use a centralized service
Yeah I don’t want to be that guy telling others to install an app to stay in contact with me. That would be extremely hypocritical on my part as I’m the one those people who refuses to install any apps people tells me to and it wouldn’t solve the issue anyway as then I’d still be using WhatsApp as well but now I just have one more additional app to communicate with certain people.
Nowdays doesn’t seem to matter where ever you go there’s always an app you need to install to do XY and Z. I don’t even have a Lemmy app as I only use it via browser. Same applies to YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Pixelfed, Reddit and so on.
in these groups theres often someone that just cannot install a new app because their phones storage is full and they can’t afford a better phone (or just don’t want to spend money on it). i wouldn’t insist with these people and just accept using whatsapp
You are wrong on that: It would be a start to solving the issue! Every little step forward counts.
As for 1000 apps replacing website, I could not agree more… In addition you get much better control on a website like adblocks and javascript control.
I got my family out after some high profile data breaches on WhatsApp. We feel a lot safer sharing personal info over Signal and the switchover was painless. Even the video calls are great on signal.
There’s inertia, for sure, but once you highlight that some evil corp isn’t the one handling grandma’s inheritance data, it makes for a compelling case.
We all still have WhatsApp because we need to talk to the others. But our family chat only exists on Signal now.
Same (Brazil), Whatsapp is pretty much a requirement and I hate that I’m forced to give Meta my information by using their shitty app.
I’ll link my previous comment and add that it’s easier for Brazil.
Lembra de quando prenderam uns políticos pelos bate-papos do Telegram? É só lembrar a tua família que o WhatsApp tem a mesma fraqueza. Pergunta se eles confiam no Zuckerberg outra mandar os dados bancários que toda família manda de vez em quando. Documentos escaneados, dados pessoais…
Não consegui convencer os meus amigos mas confesso que poderia ter sido um pouco mais insistente. Quando o pessoal manda screenshot de transação bancária pelo wpp pra acertar conta de bar, dá pra dar uma instigada de leve. “A AI do Zuckerberg adorou ver os teus dados.” E deixa assim, vez por outra um comentário curto pra elevar a consciência de privacidade das pessoas. Uma hora vem. Ou não, mas tás fazendo tua parte.
This does not help.
And yet it gets repeated (and upvoted) in every thread.
Acts like a psyop to stop us finding solutions. Now, I will respond and you should too.
That’s Lemmy in a nutshell. Guillotine and Luigi memes are constantly repeated because they know that no one’s actually going to act on that stuff, but any time anyone suggests a practical means to weaken the oligopoly people come out of the woodwork to shut it down.
You think? I consider these memes more like a reminder of our global to-do list. It doesn’t mean we can’t selfhost a matrix server at the same time.
Those memes remind me I don’t actually hate myself I hate the system I am forced to interface with.
Without them I would not take more action, I would just hate myself more and be even sadder.
Help with what?
Wouldn’t Matrix be a better alternative to Signal, since it doesn’t need a number? Maybe it has a too difficult learning curve to the average user, though
Matrix isn’t fediverse though. It is Federated but uses its own protocol
Well, Signal isn’t federated either, and doesn’t have a fediverse-like technology like Matrix does…
The best number-free protocol is SimpleX atm
An change your email to protonmail or tutamail. Starve those gmails, outlooks, iCloud’s and etc
Email is a shitty protocol we should abandon
I need to use email to work
What you need is not always what the world needs.
Protonmail aren’t necessarily worthy of the support, look up the recent news about them
Yes I noticed that, that’s why I changed to tutamail. It’s everywhere this neofascism wild capitalism thing
In my case I deleted instagram, instead of whatsapp I’m going to Matrix (I’ll see who I get there), I changed Reddit for Lemmy and I’m trying to find an active Peertube instance that allows for account creation, live, and uploading videos
yeah I’ll be honest, peertube is nowhere near a youtube replacement
Check this list out: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15816115
This is such a beautiful guide!
Friendly reminder that peertube can expose your IP address.
Anyone know if loops has a good app out, or if there’s one in the works thats coming out soon?
The app worked for me when I first downloaded it but hasn’t since
The app is really bare bones. It’s also not federated (yet, but use a product for what it is right now, not what it promises to be).
Has potential but also dansup keeps running head-first into controversial takes.
Oh, i see. Still interesting, thanks for the info
My favourite Dansup line is " It’s coming this weekend" not sure when this weekend is supposed to come around tho.
From what I’ve seen on the loops discord he’s about to open source the app and self hosted backend real soon, he’s been reaching out for people to set up and test out the server code.
Same with federation, that’s not far away, I think he wants to test how the different instances connect to each other first before the wider federation.
He’s finally starting to look for coders to help him with the backend and app tho, so that’s a good start.
And I really do appreciate that. He’s doing some good stuff and really hope pixelfed and loops (and sup) continue on the momentum that they’ve got and gain a substantial enough Userbase that they’re really enjoyable to use. Just wanted to add the extra context because I think that’s relevant too!
He just really needs to let people help him more, he makes good stuff but it’s kinda obvious it’s getting a bit much for him sometimes, which is how we ended up with the stuff in your link lol.
A few times I’ve jumped in to the pixelfed discord before he split loops into its own one and he’d be in some crazy long rant, then you’d see him delete all his messages, dude needs a break or to delegate some of his work to the people who keep asking to help.
Good dude tho, just needs a rest I think, the tik tok thing kinda put some pressure on him to get it going quicker I think.
I like this. I hope it starts conversations. Does anyone know if there are good alternatives to Discord?
There are a few that I can’t recall off the top of my head
Mumble + Element (Matrix)
revolt.chat
Matrix. Seems to be the hottest thing for group chats. Also what a lot of open source projects that used IRC before are switching to (or, if not switching, are providing a bridge for).
Yes, there is Matrix
TeamSpeak is doing an overhaul to be similar to Discord. You can self host.
oh cool!
Zulip or Revolt
guilded could be consider one but really matrix and revolt are the privacy ones
yo, fuck discord, this is by far the most important one to emulate for me.
IRC isn’t really a replacement for Discord given that discord replaced irc for most people. Discord does a lot more than irc.
@M154nthr0p3 @malcriada_lala that is a nice one. Or #xmpp ;-)
