For some context, we are first generation immigrants. My parents are Russian, my mother and her husband have been living here for 20 years (even got rid of Russian citizenship couple years ago), my biological father is still living in Russia.
It’s damn exhausting to discuss political topics with them, especially my father. He keeps telling me how great it is to live in Russia, how their economy is doing great and how he’s proud that they are defending their “brothers” in Donezk and Luhansk from the evil bandera regime in Ukraine.
My mom voted far right in the past election. She doesn’t believe she voted for nazis, but the party’s views on economics, climate policy and immigration seem to align with hers. She believes wind farms are harmful for the environment. What the actual fuck.
Whenever I try to argue with them, they tell me that I’ve been brainwashed by “Western propaganda”.
I’m at a loss. I love my parents and I know that nobody’s immune to propaganda, but it’s heartbreaking to see them holding these toxic beliefs. How would you deal with parents like these? Should I just declare to never talk about politics with them again since it’s pointless?
I moved a couple states away from my family to minimize any interaction. It’s not just politics. Their politics are, however, and indicator that they’re not the type of people I want to associate with, so the extra distance facilitates less contact.
Of course, I moved to Iowa, which has since shifted from purplish to red. At least I’m on a blue city.
To quote mc Paul Barnum
“They’re scared of change because they are new to it. So don’t demand change on the face. Change can be fluid. Sometimes it’s all right to give up on adults who worked themselves stupid.”
It helps if you have siblings on your side who can shout them down. Genuinely. 3 vs 1, or 3 vs 2 is still enough to open their minds on some topics.
Meet force with force, but only if you have an army. If you’re an only child, a more subversive approach is required
Should I just declare to never talk about politics with them again since it’s pointless?
Yes. I thought that was obvious, when have you ever seen children being able to convert their parents?
My mom was a conservative along the lines of McCain and Romney. My sister and I played a part in converting her, but Trump did the heavy lifting.
I unbrainwashed my mom but not my dad
Yeah. As Dave Ramsey says “If they’ve wiped your butt, you’re probably not going to change their mind.” Lol.
While this is not incorrect, it needs to be stated for the record that Dave Ramsey is a fucking tool.
Let the record so reflect!
My parents were anti-gay marriage back in the day… they converted when they were faced with the fact that ALL OF THEIR KIDS are queer hahaha
They’re totally cool with stuff now, and very much not right-leaning anymore.
Block their access to propaganda channels. Don’t tell them you are doing this. Make it look like it’s malfunctioning, if you can. Expose them more to educational material.
Example: Swap fox sub with vox. Set the child lock on their tv. Domain filter facebook in their router or throttle the service to make it unpleasant to use. Set up url redirects. Get them a stack of dvds. Proper entertainment is better than propaganda. They watch that crap cause they are lazy and it’s easy.
If they give up and switches to a more sane channel for their entertainment, politics or otherwise, you have succeeded.
The idea is to remove them from the constant barrage of propaganda from bad actors. If they stop hearing about “evil trans people” every ten minutes, they will probably become uninterested after a while.
My parent gets recommended right wing propoganda via youtube, and it’s infuriatingly difficult to stop it. After I blocked Fox news, the algorithm will simply recommend Fox news videos and streams from innumerable other random channels that do nothing but that, and it becomes whack a mole.
I subscribed them to better sources, but even after deleting the view history, that shit always finds a way back.
I think the algorithm shit is why we have this right wing surge.
Yep. Billionaires have always had their thumb on the scale, but they’ve now found a particularly effective scale to tip.
Without looking anything up; I would try solving this problem with a browser extention that can hide videos by keyword.
filter FOX, trans, woke and whatever else usually excites or makes them angry. Check their history for a list of things to filter.
If you wanna be extreme, you could redirect youtube to some other video hosting site. you might be able to block some domains to break the yt app but still allow the homepage.
if they are accessing yt through mobile apps, I would consider swapping it for an alternative yt app with the feature of keyword filtering. without checking if they have this feature, you could check out Newpipe, vanced, skytube.
At least you can turn off recommendations and search suggestions and only show subscriptions in the ui.
Do them the service of installing sponsorblock and ublock Origin, to make the browser experience superior to the official app. (also avoids propaganda ads)
I hadn’t thought of a keyword blocker, but that might just be the ticket to solving it permanantly. Cheers for the recommendation!
Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately though, I don’t live with my parents anymore. They seem to consume information mostly through telegram, news articles and Russian television. I wouldn’t know how to shield them from those influences, I don’t have access to all their accounts or devices.
If you live with them it could be tricky but let them know you will not be talking politics or any kind of emotionally charged topic with them going forward. Lets keep it light and stick to the things we agree on and leave everything else at the door. Avoid talking about them or saying you or sounding accusatory to minimize defensiveness, just let them know these topics and conversations are not how you want to use your time and energy and thinking anymore.
If they start trying to drag you into a forbidden topic, simply let them know you are heading off to do something since you dont have anything to add or contribute to topics that you are uncomfortable with like you mentioned to them before.
Start with this and let us know if they bite. I’ve got some other ideas but start with this and see how it goes. At the end of the day, engaging in these kinds of discussions over and rehashed constantly is damaging and pointless so the key is transcending them by not participating in them or feeding the wrong wolf. Be polite and respectful but also assertive that you will not be dealing with these topics any longer
Although I don’t live with them, the topic comes up every time I am on the phone with my father. He keeps yapping and yapping about how great the motherland is, until I snap. It seems it’s all he ever wants to talk about - Putin this, Ukraine that.
Thank you for your advice, I’ll try setting up some boundaries next time he calls.
Ya just let him know you’re not spending your time and mental energy on that stuff. Stop talking to him on the phone or let him know that as soon as things are falling off course into that stuff, you gotta go and take a break from him for a few weeks.
Eventually he will get the message but if its still a problem after that, might need to go no contact to demonstrate you’re serious
It’s damn exhausting to discuss political topics with them, […]
Then don’t, and if that’s the only thing they’re willing to talk about, make passive aggressive remarks about their lack of conversational creativity.
Immigrants to where?
Germany
I moved out when I was 18 and mostly don’t talk to much of my biological family.
What’s more important to you: having a relationship with them or changing their views? I don’t mean this as some kind of “gotcha” thing. This is the choice you need to make.
You already have your simplest solution to this (don’t talk politics with them), but you made this post because you don’t like that solution.
Thankfully most things in life aren’t so black and white. It’s possible that you can work on them very very softly and slowly over time, but this all comes down to what you can stand in order to keep your relationship with them.
I personally think that attempting to avoid political topics with them is the best direction to go here, but it’s not my parents or my choice to make for you.
Is “here” in the US? Or somewhere else in the West? I’m mostly asking because I could probably give more concrete tips if it were in Germany.
Have they ever met a refuge from Ukraine? Did they talk with them?
As for things like wind parks or climate policies or economics I think it is important to find a way to present that as “this is directly financially beneficial for you”. Here in Germany, let’s say, different independent financial institutions have calculated the total tax burden based on your income bracket if different parties were in power and went through with their plans. And lo and behold, of course FDP, CDU and AfD would have very much increased the tax burden on low to middle income people. Or they calculated that the great sounding plans of these parties would cost like 150 billion euros - which is an incredibly high sum - and explaining this away with “oh we’ll make the economy prosper” doesn’t work either (more calculations that are irrelevant if you’re not in Germany).
My honest tip is don’t make it about ideology. If you want to keep talking about politics, don’t talk about liberation. Don’t talk about foreigners, nazis, climate change, DEI or LGBTQ. Your best bet is money. And safety maybe. But as others have suggested - reconsider whether you even want to throw pearls at swine and try to convince them of something different.
And don’t forget that a lot of behavior is a reaction of fear. In the beginning of the war there was a great podcast episode of Екатерина Шульман where she tried to emphasize that in times of aggression, it is a very natural response of the psyche to align with the aggressor. Your parents neither want to see the country they came from, love and probably idealize (as we always do with our past, especially when we don’t fully beling somewhere new) as the Bad Guy, nor do they want to be scared - for their country, for their future, for their relatives, for you.
Also, I just want to say, my condolences, and I deal with similar stuff. My family is either apolitical or opportunistic, and the best case scenario is “well both sides are bad”. I’ve been scared to call my grandpa who has первый канал running 24/7 for a year after the war started, I can guess what side he is on. If you ever want to just vent about how awful and difficult it is, feel free to write me.
Diese Kommentarsektion ist nun Eigentum der BRD /s
Ironically, my mom’s husband is from Odessa, Ukraine, yet he still sides with Russia. They’re small business owners and would likely profit from AFDs tax reforms. Their clients are also mostly “Russland-deutsche” and apparently most of them are also AFD voters. No wonder they were influenced towards this direction. Hard to tell if they have spoken to Ukrainian refugees, doesn’t seem too unlikely given their clientele.
I think your tip with money is right on the nose. I would also describe my family as opportunistic, now that you mention it, it sounds like a fairly accurate description.
They don’t seem fearful at all to me. My father for one thing believes Russia is the land of the free, where the government protects its citizens from evil NATO. I asked him what he thought about all those opposition journalists who disappeared or got jailed, or what about the laws forbidding to criticize the government on social media. His response was “nobody got jailed! It’s all fake news! My colleague criticizes Putin all the time and nothing happened to him! It’s those foreign agents and business crooks who got jailed, and rightfully so!”
It’s very frustrating, I feel you bro.
Do you happen to have any resources on how to counter pro afd/ pro Putin arguments? I remember seeing a YouTube channel debunking Putins propaganda in Russian, but I don’t know what they were called.
I cut ties with a friend my age (early to mid 30s) who grew up in Germany but had Ukrainian roots, and family in Ukraine next to the border. He also didn’t believe what “Western media” said and only what his family on the border is telling him and “they know who is bombing whom”. He has a Master’s degree in psychology. It completely fucked me up.
My parents also have friends living in Krim who were super happy about the takeover in 2014, and they are there, so they must know better, right?
And there is some truth to that: We are also not immune to propaganda and of course Western media has its biases. I am confident that we too are being fooled here and there. You can see this in a very one sided media coverage of Gaza in German news. Most Ukrainian refugees I’ve met do indeed just want the war to end and some openly don’t care whether their land will belong to Russia afterwards. They just want their relatives not to die. Zelensky is being heavily criticized and he is also not immune to corruption, while the internet thinks he is some god like hero with unquestionable integrity and balls of steel. He is also just a human and a politician. Ukraine is no moral safe haven and we have to remember that. My husband’s cousin should not have been drafted, but he was drafted right away, because obviously someone bought themselves out and the place had to be replaced. Not everyone wants to fight for their country, but some were forced to, still. His second cousin was only drafted a year later, although he should have been in the first or second wave.
That “evil NATO, nobody got jailed” theme of your parents sounds very much like what my family would say, all of it. And it is hard to counter and admittedly it was a narrative I believed until I went to Russia in 2016 for a semester, met people, saw the country, talked to locals, met my husband. My strongest tip for you is therefore - don’t get sucked into it. First and foremost be sure in what you believe in. Be sure that there are indeed people who oppose the regime and the war. Be sure they do exist. I know this sounds trivial, but sometimes it is easy to start questioning yourself when your own knowledge doesn’t come from local sources. After all, your parents probably have more ties to Russia and Russian media, so they have an “insight”, while you might actually really be manipulated by second hand Western media, right? …
I’ve been thinking a lot whether I can give you any resources on how to counter pro Putin or pro AfD arguments. I’ll start with the latter: Geld für die Welt is a youtube channel I stumbled across shortly before the election, and it has some great videos exposing illogical arguments (there is a great one about money as mentioned in my previous comment that I can link if you want).
As for Putin’s propaganda: I’m not sure I know many good first hand sources. Obviously Ekaterina Schulman’s podcast Status (статус) has great insights, and I recommend listening to her speech как это пережить that came out three years ago. It gives you some kind of comfort. OVD Info - which you can support via Global Giving btw, strongly recommend that - has stats and information on political imprisonments and therelike. Most information I get is actually from telegram channels, which I started following about a year ago. There are also groups of the Russian opposition (Idk where you live, but here in Leipzig there is a great one, and the chat often posts links to articles, videos and other resources). As someone who only recently got into Russian oppositional media and activities (and having limited reading/understanding abilities), I cherish these kinds of insights by people who are much more in touch with what is happening. Most have been political activists for years and many have fled from political persecution. Basically, I know I can trust their sources. Maybe it is worth asking for resources there. There is also Team Navalny in Germany and Demokratie-Ja. Medusa etc is also a classic news source.
But then again, I would not try to “debunk” or “show facts”, I don’t think this works well in general. It reminds me of a John Oliver episode - was it on UFOs, conspiracy theories, or vaccines? - where he has a great bit on how to talk to people who believe in such things without being condescending or just showing them “facts”. They are not dumb. They believe what they believe because of subconscious fears, experiences, manipulation. No one is immune to this and it is important to meet the people where they stand and with respect and understanding and an open ear.
I think a psychologist would say that if you really can’t find common ground, it’s best to agree not to talk about it.
Indoctrination is highly effective. Your parents were raised in a place where toeing the line is the norm and questioning those in power is traditionally a great way to ensure you disappear. Russians are deeply indoctrinated when compared to western nations because that’s how their society has been set up since 1922. The Soviet leadership ruled by suppressing any dissent, violently and without remorse. Just because the Soviet Union no longer exists, doesn’t mean their ways of doing things disappeared too.
The only way to change them would be to engage in an equally sophisticated program of indoctrination: deprogramming as it’s called. Since you lack the resources of the Soviet Union, it would be a much more difficult task, especially since your parents are now older and their brains are less changeable. They were indoctrinated as children and by a very prolific system. Reversing that now, by yourself, is a tall order.
I’m sorry your parents were failed by their leadership, it’s truly a shame.
Sorry dude, there’s nothing you can do. They’re not going to change their beliefs regardless of what you say or do. Ya either gotta accept that this is who they are and find a way to work around it, or you cut off all ties and go your separate ways. It really sucks but there’s no reason to waste your energy on something futile. It will be a waste of time and just leave you disappointed and upset.
Disappointed and upset is exactly how I feel! Thank you for your input.
I virtually never discuss politics with my parents. I don’t have a clue about which party they even vote for.
Oh hey we’re in the exact same boat! My parents are from Russia too and moved to Germany about 20 years ago. If the bureaucracy here wasn’t that slow, they would have had citizenship by now and 100% both voted AfD.
We never had a decent relationship and I’m not concerned about preserving anything, so the goal is to just fully cut all contact at some point 🤷
Until then, I just act ignorant whenever they bring up politics (like literally pretending to not know who Trump is, because “what, why would I pay attention to niche american politics, they’re literally an ocean away??”).
Works pretty well, sometimes it even does make them retrospect about why they would care so much about seemingly random topics (because Russian propaganda channels train them to react to specific buzzwords).
Ultimately, I don’t think they would ever change into better people and any energy put into changing their minds would be better used somewhere else.
