What’s up with this straight up pro-china and pro-russia stuff on Lemmy lately?
It’s not even praising the people of China and Russia, but rather their gov directly.
Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
Is this some kind of organized disinformation campaign?
Oh so you’re valuing the lives of the Uyghurs and other minorities in concentration camps. You’re really valuing the millions of Russian soldiers that die fighting a war of aggression. You value so highly all the innocent people in Gulags which are basically concentration camps too. I see now how highly you value those people, my bad.
the gulag system ended in 1960. you know less than your average street dog.
lol, ”millions of Russian soldiers”, the entire personnel of the Russian military is about two million people, do you think they sent literally every single soldier in the Russian military to Ukraine? Gulags? What the fuck are you talking about, is everything you know about Russia from Cold War era propaganda?
I conceded that millions was indeed an exaggeration. If you don’t know what Gulags are or doubt their existence, I guess it’s clear everything you know about Russia is from its current state propaganda.
You mean a lie, you conceded that it was a lie.
Where the fuck did you get your information from?
I did not, a lie is intentional.
School, you should try it.
What did you learn in school?
For it to not be intentional, you would have had to have a reason to believe it was true. You did not.
Your school taught you that Soviet Gulags are a contemporary thing?
I know it’s over a million by most reasonable estimates, so I said millions. I should not because it’s indeed not at least 2 million. Funny how you continue to focus on this mistake rather than the fact that all those people died in a completely pointless war of aggression of your beloved oh-so-not-imperial Russia.
It taught me that there are still forced labor camps in Russia, it doesn’t matter whether you call them Gulags or not.
Do you? Do you “know” that? Because you went really quiet when asked to actually present these “reasonable estimates”. Sounds like you’re still lying.
So you lied.
Not a mistake, you lied.
Oh look, you lied when you said you cared about numbers of dead.
Oh, we’re just pulling accusations out of our ass now? Ok: you should follow your beloved leader Adolf Hitler, seeing how you love him so much.
Oh ok, so you lied. Again
Do you call US prisons Gulags?
The USSR did have prisons, yes. I don’t think that’s out of the ordinary for a state to have. Secondly, and you don’t seem to get this, the USSR is dead and gone, as much as we all would rather have it here with us today (though KPRF membership is skyrocketing and trends do seem in favor of at least Russia turning back to socialism).
Ah yes, prisons, just normal, civilised prisons. Just like Guantanmo is a normal prison, right? And of course, they don’t exist in Russia today anymore, where did Navalny die again?
The GULag Administration was abolished in 1960, so yes, that system doesn’t exist anymore. Further, the conditions of prisons in the GULag Administration varied wildly depending on severity of crimes, including some that had free access for visitation and relatively open walls.
I know gulags existed like 70 years ago, you seem to think they still exist.
They do, just because they’re called differently now, doesn’t mean they disappeared. If you call yourself a leftist instead of tankie, doesn’t mean you’re not a tankie anymore.
Again, what the fuck are you talking about? Maybe try the section titled Where Did The Gulag Go? in Parenti’s Blackshirts and Reds.
No idea what this is supposed to mean, but I’ll gladly call myself a tankie since it’s just a meaningless word used to slander anyone who’s not a NATO leftist.
You didn’t answer my question, where did Navalny die?
Where did Epstein die?
If someone answers “a prison”, is your plan then to say “no, he died in a gulag” as if that would make any actual difference, or is there something else you’re angling for here?
In over a decade of genocide accusations against China, The West hasn’t been able to produce a single example of even one Uyghur being killed, even though Xinjiang is perfectly accessible and anyone can go there to find perfectly normal cities. Even Wikipedia had to rename it’s “Uyghur Genocide” page because they couldn’t actually find enough evidence.
Meanwhile, Gaza is a closed off death camp where journalists are being shot on sight, with the full support of both the institutions and individuals who are making the Uyghur genocide accusations in the first place. None the less, we see daily videos of mass death, with even western estimates for total dead in the hundreds of thousands after less than two years.
You don’t care about Muslim lives, they are not human to you, you only care about them as a cudgel against the West’s enemies. This is made undeniably clear by the fact that you try to claim China killing zero Muslims is comparable to the West exterminating an entire nation.
Millions? You’re just pulling make believe numbers out of your ass now, unlike the actually confirmed millions killed in Western Wars of aggression. And it’s because non-western lives aren’t actually real to you; thousands, millions, tens of millions, whatever - it’s all just fictional to you, like the size of armies in fantasy books.
What the fuck are you talking about? Please tell me you’re not trying to have a take on this while being so monumentally ignorant of even the most basic facts of the matter.
What’s happening to them is worse than getting killed.
Ok, you’re completely delusional, should have figured from the start. Please watch some footage of journalists that actually went there.
All your blathering about Palestine is nice whataboutism, but nothing more. I’m strongly opposed to the Israeli government as well, not that it matters in this discussion. It’s possible to have a more nuanced view than “east good, west bad” even though that might be too difficult for you to comprehend.
Millions is probably incorrect indeed, the estimate is over 1 million. What does it matter though? The one who doesn’t seem to care about their lives (apart from Putin, obviously) is you, because every single one is one too many.
I’m talking about innocent people being held in Gulags and in many cases dying there. Reading comprehension is difficult for you it seems. I’m curious though, do you think Gulags are not real or that only guilty people are sent there? Even if they were guilty, do you think a civilised nation should have concentration camps?
Nice deflection. “Nobody has been killed in Xinjiang. - Well, ackhually that’s because what’s happening is even worse than death!” Like what? Uhhh, stuff I guess.
What a vile little worm you are. And of course, because you don’t actually consider them human, you don’t care if they actually agree with this; you’re not actually going to try present the argument that the Uyghurs themselves would, if you went to Xinjiang and asked them, would prefer to be in Gaza. You’re just going to make the declaration for them, because you need to to excuse the holocaust going on in Gaza.
Please, present this footage that shows that the people of Xinjiang are worse off than the people in Gaza…
You can’t actually defend the idea that the West’s crimes aren’t as bad as China, so you’re just going to declare that it’s “not allowed” to even mention the West’s crimes. Even you realise your position is untenable if people actually bring up counter points, so you’re going to pretend that some how it’s “cheating” for them to do so.
Of course it fucking matters. What the fuck are you on about?
You’re just assuming that, because you are only capable of seeing it in terms of Good Guys and Bad Guys, then I must be too, just in the other direction. This is a lazy strawman doesn’t actually follow from anything that was said.
Not incorrect: a lie that you told.
“The estimate”? From who?
Yeah, what does it matter? It’s not like theyre real humans with lives or anything. because non-western lives aren’t actually real to you; thousands, millions, tens of millions, whatever - it’s all just fictional to you, like the size of armies in fantasy books.
Tell me again how every Muslim in Xinjiang would be better off dead, how the genocide in Gaza is just prattle and whataboutism, and how numbers of dead don’t matter. Funny how “every single one is to many” doesn’t apply to the West, they can kill by the million and you’ll forgive them.
Oh my God… Please tell me this is a bit.
nice projection
What? Please try to write properly, your sentences are barely decipherable. No one has said anything about Xinjiang concentration camps being better or worse than Gaza.
Again, no one has claimed that. What are you talking about?
I’m not assuming anything, I based this on what you said. Whereas I have clearly expressed a more nuanced view, thus you’re, again, not making any sense.
I did not say that, although I know for a fact that some of the kidnapped and incarcerated people that are not allowed to see their family and to speak their language would rather be dead.
I never said that, do you know what whataboutism is?
They matter to me, but clearly not to you.
Honestly, this is the last time I reply to you if you keep making shit up. Every single person killed is one too many, it does not matter who does the killing. Is that clear enough for you?
The point was that there’s an actual genocide going on in Gaza, which makes your claim that Uyghurs in Xinjiang are experiencing something “worse than death” ludicrous at best.
Yes, there is and it’s obviously terrible and every actor participating in it, individual, corporate and state, should be held accountable.
It doesn’t have anything to do with the situation of Uyghurs in concentration camps is worse than death.
This you?
“That’s projection!” Isn’t actually some universal rebuttal you can just throw at everything. I gave a very specific explanation of why I said you don’t consider them human.
It’s a perfectly legible sentence, please don’t pretend to be illiterate to avoid having to acknowledge rebuttals. Particularly if you’re going to immediately acknowledge that you did actually know what I said
Well now you’re resorting to straight up lying about demonstrated facts.
Well now you’re resorting to straight up lying about demonstrated facts.
What, specifically, did I say that you are basing it off?
Well now you’re resorting to straight up lying about demonstrated facts.
Yet you were still able to articulate a reply.
Well now you’re resorting to straight up lying about demonstrated facts.
A fact? You know that for a fact? How exactly do you know that for a fact? Sounds like you just lying again, like you lied about the “over a million” number (and then quickly went quiet when asked to present your source)
Well now you’re resorting to straight up lying about demonstrated facts.
You literally said they don’t.
You’re directly contradicting yourself.
Do you want to try that again, but legible?
done
question, why do you think the rest of us should believe the work of the German guy ‘on a mission from god’ against China and communism when he doesn’t even speak the language.
also why can’t they find another person to research this if it’s really as serious as you say lmao
deleted by creator
here I am catching strays
I think you meant to reply to the other person
Did I click the wrong button?
Yeah, looks like it.
Longtime hater of nested comments, bring back the old forum style.
for real, I routinely sort my threads by new comments for that exact reason
I don’t even know who you’re talking about. There is footage of many journalists that went there and filmed with hidden cameras, also Chinese speaking ones.
Can you provide any videos of this?
Hey @ctrl_alt_esc@lemmy.ml, how come you mysteriously stop responding when people ask you to actually present your evidence.
here’s someone who actually speaks the language explaining how those journalists mistranslated and staged their footage.
Lol, of course you don’t even know where the claims you believe about China even come from
You are a diseased person in mind and soul.
Even the most damning, counterfactual, and unsupported claims about China’s treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang are nothing more than a fraction of the verifiable, livestreamed barbarism that US/israel have been unleashing on Palestinians in Gaza for decades.
You were better off not responding lol